Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I would recommend the Charles Shaw winery tour, but saying "Go to Fresno" is the California equivalent of a swear.

I've been enjoying some zins from Lodi lately, but telling people to go to Lodi is a lot like telling people to go to Fresno.

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I've been enjoying some zins from Lodi lately, but telling people to go to Lodi is a lot like telling people to go to Fresno.

Depends who you're saying that to. I have family in Bakersfield who wouldn't take offense to that.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Atticus, the drive to Ferrari Carano is worth it if you stop in Healdsburg and have lunch first. Maybe hit Kendall Jackson for the hell of it. Then go to Ferrari Carano, then you can hit Silver Oak, Murphy Goode and Chateau Souverain on the way back.

I've never been to the Silver Oak in Sonoma --- I was talking about the one on the Oakville Crossroad. That's the one with the Spanish mission tasting room and the big big Cabernets.

I don't dispute, BTW, that Ferrari Carano has a beautiful estate, but be serious. If you're on a four-day vacation time budget, you should stick to the corridor and do as many premium brands we've heard of as you can. Go places where you'll later see the wines on a wine list, so you'll have your fond memories of Napa and Sonoma jogged every time you go out to a nice dinner.

Kendall Jackson is more of an empire than a winery. I might stop there after tubing on the Russian River, but I don't think it's really a good destination winery. You seem to have a real jones for so-so mid-priced varietals. Are you on the Sonoma County Chamber of Commerce or something?

Aloha, I agree with the consensus that V. Sattui wine is crap, but they have an outrageous deli and is always wall-to-wall packed with people. They also have a pleasant picnic area out front to eat your deli selection and pound some water before the big drink fest that is wine tasting.

This was once true, but I won't be going back to the V. Sattui deli for a while. This PR response has to be the worst effort at customer service since the waiter famously replied, "The backstroke."

If you're looking for the deli experience without field mice, the Viansa winery in Sonoma has a pretty elaborate setup. It's pretty far away from the rest of Sonoma's cellars, and I don't think it's actually a winery, but if you squint and look out over the hills you'd swear you were in Tuscany (Important exception: the weekend there's a Winston Cup race at Sears Point, it does not seem like Tuscany).

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
This was once true, but I won't be going back to the V. Sattui deli for a while. This PR response has to be the worst effort at customer service since the waiter famously replied, "The backstroke."

I'm thinking those two people must have pissed off the Sattui employees somehow. I'll buy that one mouse in one sandwich is bad luck, but we're supposed to believe that they each got a mouse in their turkey foccaccia, and it's never happened to anyone else? Yeah, right.

Of course, this raises the question of which Sattui wine you'd pair with mouse foccaccia.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
mostly crap

When did I say the Kendall Jackson was a destination? You really have to go back to posting at night.
I said, if you're in Healdsburg, it's right there. All you have to do is cross a street. And yeah, if I've got 4 days in wine country, I'll hit upper Sonoma on a day trip. Lower Sonoma could be another day. 2 days in Napa. It's all good.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Of course, this raises the question of which Sattui wine you'd pair with mouse foccaccia.

White or dark meat mouse? It would matter to the sommelier.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
When did I say the Kendall Jackson was a destination? You really have to go back to posting at night.
I said, if you're in Healdsburg, it's right there. All you have to do is cross a street. And yeah, if I've got 4 days in wine country, I'll hit upper Sonoma on a day trip. Lower Sonoma could be another day. 2 days in Napa. It's all good.

Translation: I am on the Sonoma County Chamber of Commerce.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Translation: I am on the Sonoma County Chamber of Commerce.

That's right, and don't you forget it. I also get a quarter every time you click on an MSNBC link.

edited to remove taunting "HA"

[c2ed]

Originally posted by Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
Hi all. Going to be in your general area for a family wedding in a few months and we are planning to tack on a 3-4 day mini-vacation in Napa/Sonoma on the end of it.

Would appreciate any recommendations for spas/hotels (prefer B&B's when not in a really urban area)/winery tours and other activities. Thanks in advance.

Far be it from me to detour from Mr. Grinch's sage wine words, but I can't stand Napa just for the snootiness and traffic. The wineries in Sonoma/Russian River Valley may not be as prestigious as those to the East, but I've always had a fantastic time driving through the backroads and just following signs here and there to fun new places.

Boyfriend and I stayed at the Case Ranch Inn and had a great time - a lovely room, terrific hostess, and she knew all the local restaurants to go to and the better vineyards to hit.

For wineries, I humbly suggest Valley of the Moon, David Bynum, Dry Creek, Murphy Goode, Hop Kiln (though I haven't like their stuff the last 2 times I was there), and Rodney Strong. There are others that were a lot of fun, too - just follow the signs on the side of the road and try your luck.

For the love of Bacchus, do not go to Kendall Jackson or to Clos du Bois. Plus, depending on exactly when you're going, Kendall Jackson is a sponsor/host of a major triathlon in the area (end of July) and it gets shut down part of the time to host the athletes.

Here is also the Sonoma County Wine Ass'n site for events happening in Sonoma for the next few months.

C(waiting for my check from the Chamber of Commerce)deuced

Originally posted by c2ed
Far be it from me to detour from Mr. Grinch's sage wine words, but I can't stand Napa just for the snootiness and traffic. The wineries in Sonoma/Russian River Valley may not be as prestigious as those to the East, but I've always had a fantastic time driving through the backroads and just following signs here and there to fun new places.

Boyfriend and I stayed at the Case Ranch Inn and had a great time - a lovely room, terrific hostess, and she knew all the local restaurants to go to and the better vineyards to hit.

For wineries, I humbly suggest Valley of the Moon, David Bynum, Dry Creek, Murphy Goode, Hop Kiln (though I haven't like their stuff the last 2 times I was there), and Rodney Strong. There are others that were a lot of fun, too - just follow the signs on the side of the road and try your luck.

For the love of Bacchus, do not go to Kendall Jackson or to Clos du Bois. Plus, depending on exactly when you're going, Kendall Jackson is a sponsor/host of a major triathlon in the area (end of July) and it gets shut down part of the time to host the athletes.

Here is also the Sonoma County Wine Ass'n site for events happening in Sonoma for the next few months.

C(waiting for my check from the Chamber of Commerce)deuced

Actually, myself andd the crew I hit Valley of the Moon with agreed that the wine mostly sucked. But it was a very pretty place. I also bought some beautiful stemware there. Just don't go for the wine.

Rodney Strong is all right but certianly not a top choice. If you have limited time, skip it.

GO to Arvida if you can. There is also a fantastic place just up the road that begins with a B. Those two places are top flight.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
If you get over to the Silverado Trail side of the valley, things quiet down. Along with relatively big guns like Pine Ridge and Chimney Rock, you can still find some funky little wineries. Quality is more hit-or-miss, but you may be talking to the winemaker, rather than some tasting room clerk.

It's been a couple of years since I've gone winetasting but the Silverado Trail is the way to go in Napa. Lots of good wineries and much less traffic. Not quite Sonoma-friendly, but not bad.

I've consistently had a really good experience at the Robert Sinskey winery on Silverado. Good wines in several varieties. A tasting room tsar who, every time I've been there, has opened a bottle of something she was "not supposed to" because it was really good and she liked to see visitors try it (invariably leading me to buy a couple of bottles, sucker that I am). A couple of times, I've gotten there as they were doing a food-pairing -- Sinskey's wife is a well-known chef, but I'm blanking on the name/restaurant -- and I've seen how really good pairing can have an amazing result.

Joseph Phelps on Silverado is one of the great wineries in NAPA, IMHO, but they don't do regular tastings. If you have a group they might set something up. I went there randomly and got lucky -- they let us join with a group whose scheduling had been screwed up so they were trying to make everyone happy.

Rombauer further north has superb Chardonnays -- not real oaky like other Napa Chardonnays, much smoother. They also have a great Zin and a few other good things. Very nice folks, and if you are nice to the tasting crew they'll give you a tour of the caves.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I don't recall complementing their wines.

Disagree. I think you'd go nicely with a good V Sattui Cab.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm thinking those two people must have pissed off the Sattui employees somehow. I'll buy that one mouse in one sandwich is bad luck, but we're supposed to believe that they each got a mouse in their turkey foccaccia, and it's never happened to anyone else? Yeah, right.

We are supposed to believe it, because (according to the article) that's what the county found:

According to photographs health inspectors have of Andrew and Cindy Chang's sandwiches, Andrew's sandwich had the dark gray dismembered head, torso and tail of a rodent. Part of the torso of the animal is missing. The sandwich had been partially eaten. Cindy Chang's sandwich had the entire body of a dark gray rodent, intact.

On the other hand, you have to love the comment of the winery owner:

"Rats are a whole lot worse than a field mouse," said V. Sattui Owner Daryl Sattui.

V. Sattui is permanently off my list. The incident(s) are bad enough. But I really don't trust a winery where the owner feels competent to give tasting notes for rodents.

"Now, if there'd been a ferret in those sandwiches, we'd have charged them extra. Those are the best."

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Rombauer further north has superb Chardonnays -- not real oaky like other Napa Chardonnays, much smoother. They also have a great Zin and a few other good things. Very nice folks, and if you are nice to the tasting crew they'll give you a tour of the caves.

FYI, Rombauer is no longer allowing for tasting of the Chardonnays. They fear they will run out before August and there is currently a 1 bottle/person limit on purchases maximum 6 bottles/party. Make sure if you go, to tell them there are 4 people outside in the car. Totally agree on the Zin and there is no limit to the # of bottle of Zins you can purchase.

Silver Oak has a 2 bottle limit on their Cabs currently, which at $60 and $100 per bottle is OK by most people. The swallows are very very active right now (at the Napa tasting room - at least they were yesterday). Watch for dive bombing swallows.

Warning about Opus 1, the tasting will cost you $25 for 1 oz glass of the 1999 and $30 for a 1 oz tasting of the 1997 (which you cannot purchase by the bottle). And you don't even get to keep the glass. Beautiful grounds but is a total tourist hose trap.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
We are supposed to believe it, because (according to the article) that's what the county found:

I wasn't clear. I wasn't questioning that the rodents were there -- I was suggesting that the people who discovered them had done something to piss off Sattui employees, who placed the rodents in their sandwiches.

Either way, I'm not inclined to go back to Sattui, either.