Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV

[lost in transit]

Originally posted by c2ed
First, welcome back to the placid environs of the Bay Area.

Second, Heller definitely has increased the prestige of the firm in the past few years. Latham and Wilson will always be perceived by the general public as better, but I think Heller has gained a much better name for itself in the business world and from what my friends are doing there, their deals are pretty interesting and amazing that they work on. They've also opened up an office in Beijing, and while it's unsure how much work will really float into the SF office from there, there are sure to be more international issues that the corp associates will need to address and it lends an interesting spice to their work mix.

I'd say go for it - definitely a better work environment than Latham, they still have a terrific bonus system, and yes, you'll get to work on top-notch deals.

C(but do they have a margarita machine?)deuced

Thank you very much for the information. Just to follow up: what is the downside of Latham's work environment? My only knowledge is based on old classmates (currently at Cooley) who have indicated that the ex-cooley parnters now at Latham were notoriously difficult to work with. Is there any truth to this assertion? Thanks again.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by lost in transit
I am a mid-level corp. associate from NYC and am interested in lateralling back home to the bay area. Originally, I planned to seek a position at the traditional biglaw shops (latham, wilson); but have recently become very interested in the new Heller Ehrman/Venture Law Group practice.

My hestitation is that [when I left CA] Heller was not a significant corp firm in the valley, but with the VLG acquisition, it seems that things may have changed. Thus, my question is whether Heller has become a larger player on the corp market. That is, are they now perceived as a significant competitor to the lathams and wilsons? Or, alternatively, are they now getting a larger portion of the interesting deals? Finally, even if this is the case, do people still recommend latham/wilson and the like?

Thank you in advance for your opinions.

What do you value more - lifestyle or interesting/complex work? If the latter, I would go to Latham or another non-valley based firm. IMHO, Heller's prestige in the corporate world has not changed with the addition of the VLG group.

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by sgtclub

What do you value more - lifestyle or interesting/complex work? If the latter, I would go to Latham or another non-valley based firm. IMHO, Heller's prestige in the corporate world has not changed with the addition of the VLG group.

Heller's a great place to be a litigator.

[c2ed]

Originally posted by lost in transit
Thank you very much for the information. Just to follow up: what is the downside of Latham's work environment? My only knowledge is based on old classmates (currently at Cooley) who have indicated that the ex-cooley parnters now at Latham were notoriously difficult to work with. Is there any truth to this assertion? Thanks again.

I'd confirm that assertion from the rumors I've heard.

C(truth is a defense, right?)deuced

[SlaveNoMore]

c2ed
I'd confirm that assertion from the rumors I've heard.

C(truth is a defense, right?)deuced

From what I've been told, yes and YES

But it's all hearsay.

[lost in transit]

Thank you to everyone for all of the very helpful replies. As I am definitely trying to escape the NY style hours (and remind my family of who I am) it sounds like Heller/VLG may be the place for me. Thanks again.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by lost in transit
Thank you to everyone for all of the very helpful replies. As I am definitely trying to escape the NY style hours (and remind my family of who I am) it sounds like Heller/VLG may be the place for me. Thanks again.

The following was sent to me by PM:

• Latham: Corporate group is not the best place to want to work sane hours, and it's populated by beautiful people. Maybe transit is a beautiful person and will love it there. A friend of mine worked there and elsewhere. Em didn't hate it, but was happy to leave.
  
  Heller: The VLG people are almost entirely in SV. It's not clear what impact they've had in SF. It's also not clear how strong the corporate practice is in SF -- I just don't know anything about it. Heller is a good place to be a litigator, as the other poster said, though I've heard that it's a little crowded for senior associates.

No warranties as to the truthfulness or accuracy of the foregoing. As always, I invite this sort of thing by PM or e-mail.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
Originally posted by sgtclub



Heller's a great place to be a litigator.

I don't doubt it, Heller is a fine firm. It's probably a great place to be a corporate lawyer as well.

[OscarCrease]

word from my friends at Heller is that they are extremely busy which is obviously a good sign; one thing to consider is that there was a backlog of 5-7 year folks at VLG who didn't advance in '01-'03 so I have to believe there is a lot of crowding at the partnership gate post-merger. especially since everyone at VLG was corporate so it would presumably have a disproportionate impact on the senior corp. associates chances to make partner.

as for deals; my sense is that the nature of the work at LW is totally different from at least what VLG does (don't know much about Heller's work pre-merger). LW is certainly more like NY, i.e., very large deals for very large companies and predominately public. from the little that I've seen of LW on the other side of deals, their lawyers don't know squat about representing venture backed startups and that's not their model.

based anecdotally on some acquaintances at LW, they work harder and longer than anyone I've met on the West Coast, but then again their partners make 7 figures and ours make mid-six. Personally, I'd rather know my wife and children.

[lost in transit]

You all have been amazingly helpful-thank you.

One last follow up question on the snae hours comment: I just learned that most of the attorneys at Heller aim for 2000 hours (so as to receive a very generous step up in salary). Do the folks at Latham SV work substantially more than 2000 billiables?

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by lost in transit
Do the folks at Latham SV work substantially more than 2000 billiables?

It depends on the quarter.


Seriously -- and this is anecdotal only -- my understanding is that when things were busy, folks in that office hit well over that number. At least those interested in making partner, etc.

At one point, people were billing only a tiny, tiny percentage of that, but that period is, hopefully, no longer.

[godrestye]

Is 2000 considered a "high" amount of billables for litigators?

I get the sense that 2000-2100 is seen as a minimum (stated or otherwise) at big SF/SV firms. Am I wrong?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by godrestye

I get the sense that 2000-2100 is seen as a minimum (stated or otherwise) at big SF/SV firms. Am I wrong?

That it is the case at my firm.

[frodo corleone]

Most places say 1900 minimum billable hours. I would guess, for litigation, 1900 - 2100 is "normal," 2100 - 2400 is "high," and above 2400 is unethical padding.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by frodo corleone
Most places say 1900 minimum billable hours. I would guess, for litigation, 1900 - 2100 is "normal," 2100 - 2400 is "high," and above 2400 is unethical padding.

I'd say that's probably true, though over 2400 also results from long, heavy trials.