Making Baby Jesus Cry

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Nut Case, Sensitive
Does Bush have any culpability?

The Fed govt does. Bush admitted that there had been unacceptable performance. That is more than Blanco, Landrieu and Nagin combined.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Gattigap
This I'm having a hard time following, but feel pretty confident saying that this I did not do.



This, I did do, at least as far as declaring that I'm taking none of your images seriously after being force-fed a diet of dumbass doctored images of Clinton, Byrd, Kennedy, Sheehan, and others over a course of years.

Tough shit. I am quite surprised that my declaring this so offends your delicate sensibilities.

so what you saying is your analytical abilities are so limited that you cannot tell the difference between the stock photo I posted of Bork without his beard as being genuine from a picture that looks phottoshopped and has a strangecosmos.com logo on it.

Either you are liar or that is really sad commentary on you.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
If you have been reading my posts I have consistently said that Bush has to bear some of the responsiblity. In fact, I have argued with people that have said he should not.

and he has.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Nut Case, Sensitive
Who is more culpable: Bush or Hilary?

for what?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Penske_Account


As for Bush, he has admitted unacceptable performance. I applaud and admire his ability to accept responsibility.

I agree with you on this. Of the three he is the least culpable for the response but is the only one (that I know of) that has apologized.

But as I said before when Sebastian critisized people for critisizing Bush, wasn't the Federal government responsible for the integrity of the Levee? Everyone knew it could collapse, so everyone should have been more prepared. But in the end it was an inland water way within the purview of the Coast Guard, so the Feds were responsible for the integrity of the Levee.

Am I wrong?

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
this is fucking absurd. Are you really questioning whether or not those pictures are what they are purported to be? If so, the two of you have lost all sanity.

Reading comprehension not so good this late in the day? That is not what he is saying at all. Neither Gatti nor I dispute the pictures. We just never saw them in all the reports that we read and watched, so Spanky's characterization that they are The Most Common Picture Of The Hurricane is what is in dispute. It doesn't even particularly fucking matter except that for some bizarre reason, Spanky continues to debate this despite several people who have been watching the news stepping forward and saying that we haven't seen the pictures before today. Then Spanky tries to change his Most Common Picture thing to the fact that the story about the flooded school busses was reported, which I would not dispute. But that is not what he said initially. And he is too busy trying to back Ty in a corner for something to even realize the distinction between the two points.

This is why I don't typically post on this board. No one will ever back down on anything. How fucking annoying to listen to people bicker all day. I get enough of that on conference calls at work, thank you.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Gattigap
I'm sorry, I misread you. I thought you were saying that it was run in every major local newspaper for days, generally.

Instead, by "every major local newspaper," you meant the SF Chronicle, the San Jose Merc, and possibly the Palo Alto paper and whatever else was in the bin at Peet's over the weekend.

I can understand its searing effect, then.

Yes, because those are not credible papers. The NYTImes would have published it but it used the space for Jayson Blair's byline.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
I agree with you on this. Of the three he is the least culpable for the response but is the only one (that I know of) that has apologized.

But as I said before when Sebastian critisized people for critisizing Bush, wasn't the Federal government responsible for the integrity of the Levee? Everyone knew it could collapse, so everyone should have been more prepared. But in the end it was an inland water way within the purview of the Coast Guard, so the Feds were responsible for the integrity of the Levee.

Am I wrong?

I agree. Nagin was responsible for the pre- and immediate post-event safety of the populace and completely dropped the ball. If he had evacuated 50,000 or so people on the buses on Saturday and Sunday prior to Katrina the loss of lives would have been significantly less and the criticism of the Feds would probably be limited to inadequate maintenance of the levee over the last several decades (if not longer).

Am I wrong?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I agree. Nagin was responsible for the pre- and immediate post-event safety of the populace and completely dropped the ball. If he had evacuated 50,000 or so people on the buses on Saturday and Sunday prior to Katrina the loss of lives would have been significantly less and the criticism of the Feds would probably be limited to inadequate maintenance of the levee over the last several decades (if not longer).

Am I wrong?

No. I don't think so. Of course, if we had a Democrat president, Ty would point out that the Hurricane caused the Levee to break not the federal government.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Reading comprehension not so good this late in the day? That is not what he is saying at all. Neither Gatti nor I dispute the pictures. We just never saw them in all the reports that we read and watched, so Spanky's characterization that they are The Most Common Picture Of The Hurricane is what is in dispute. It doesn't even particularly fucking matter except that for some bizarre reason, Spanky continues to debate this despite several people who have been watching the news stepping forward and saying that we haven't seen the pictures before today. Then Spanky tries to change his Most Common Picture thing to the fact that the story about the flooded school busses was reported, which I would not dispute. But that is not what he said initially. And he is too busy trying to back Ty in a corner for something to even realize the distinction between the two points.

This is why I don't typically post on this board. No one will ever back down on anything. How fucking annoying to listen to people bicker all day. I get enough of that on conference calls at work, thank you.

the picture was there to be seen. Whether it is the most common picture of the hurricane is subjective but it is certainly the most emblamatic of the failure of the New Orleans Mayor to do his job, which failure led directly to the deaths of thousands. That is what is important. Not what media any of us access.

[Nut Case, Sensitive]

Originally posted by Spanky
Of the three he is the least culpable for the response but is the only one (that I know of) that has apologized.

You are hereby ejected from the Nuts to All of Them Club.

It is not a matter of comparing falt or offering rationalization. NUTS TO ALL OF THEM.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
the picture was there to be seen. Whether it is the most common picture of the hurricane is subjective but it is certainly the most emblamatic of the failure of the New Orleans Mayor to do his job, which failure led directly to the deaths of thousands. That is what is important. Not what media any of us access.

It actually is not subjective. It is objective, but irrelevant. I'm not the one who characterized any image in that way, so I'm not going to defend it. Entirely stupid. And, I would argue, untrue.

If I were to guess, I'd say that The Most Common Picture Of The Hurricane (at least from CNN and MSNBC reporting) is that picture of the Superdome after it was trashed with the garbage and debris field all over the prior entrance path. So what?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
It actually is not subjective. It is objective, but irrelevant. I'm not the one who characterized any image in that way, so I'm not going to defend it. Entirely stupid. And, I would argue, untrue.

If I were to guess, I'd say that The Most Common Picture Of The Hurricane (at least from CNN and MSNBC reporting) is that picture of the Superdome after it was trashed with the garbage and debris field all over the prior entrance path. So what?

How come you focused on this minor issue, which was a subsection of the two major issues which I posted before:

Post #3902

The major points in case you get you get lost in the minutae:

1) Ty said he "never defended" the Mayor and the Governor when he repeatedly did.

Is there anyone on this board that finds it believable when Ty said he never defended the Mayor or Governor?

2) Part of that defense was that he never saw one article or statement that would support the fact that the Mayor or the Governor made a mistake, although he posted many aritcles, some obscure that showed federal screw ups.

Does anyone on this believe that Ty never came across one story that critisized the Governor or Mayor, but was yet able to find multiple stories that critisized the feds.


Do you have an opinion on this?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
It actually is not subjective. It is objective, but irrelevant. I'm not the one who characterized any image in that way, so I'm not going to defend it. Entirely stupid. And, I would argue, untrue.

If I were to guess, I'd say that The Most Common Picture Of The Hurricane (at least from CNN and MSNBC reporting) is that picture of the Superdome after it was trashed with the garbage and debris field all over the prior entrance path. So what?

I stand by subjective. Most common could have several different measures or is there an objective way to define most common that applies here that I don't know about and that you can cite here?

Most eyes viewed? Occuring in the widest range of media? etc.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
How come you focused on this minor issue, which was a subsection of the two major issues which I posted before:

Its the typical liberal bait and switch, you say something substantive, they respond on a point of form and claim that undermines your substance by association. Like Gatti and Ty trying to claim a picture that obviously is of what it is of is not what it seems to be but rather a fraudulent phottoshoppe, without ever truly answering the substantive charge.

And despite the evidence to the contrary neither has apologised.