Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes. - Page 205

Spanky · 04-20-2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
You're missing the pattern. Gingrich ended up demonized and vilified after being so effective, for "transgressions" equally as weighty, but, in reality, because he just pissed off the Dems in his accomplishments. We jettisoned him because of that. Now, history repeats. It does no good to mourn the loss of a Gingrich as you boot a Delay. Each time we get an effective ramrod, a role that requires nerve and arrogance, we chicken out and fire him because the Dems cry out that he has nerve and arrogance. There's no election coming up, Delay has 45% even after the biggest MSM campaign since November, and I'd predict he'd win by his usual margin when the time comes. I don't care what the score is now, months after the last election - and I'm not too concerned that Kerry thinks Delay is mean.

I am not missing any pattern. And I am not mourning the loss of Gingrich. Delay is totally different from Gingrich. I am trying to get Republicans elected in this state and he is my biggest problem. Not the Dems, not the Unions, but Delays mouth. He is not the speaker. He doesn't need to be in the limelight to do his job. Delay runs to the limelight like a moth to flame and he sucks at it. From a practical political standpoint his negatives outweigh his positives. You may get your rocks off when you hear him, but that doesn't help the party. The man is a liability. And its people like you that just can't see how he helps the Democrats that are going to cost us the Congress.

Skeks in the city · 04-20-2005, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
What has [Delay] gotten through? Anything that counts. Tax Reform? Social Security? No - that is the tough stuff. All he has done is gotten legislation through that has exploded the budget. He didn't stop the farm bill and railroaded the Medicare drug thing through. Hell the guy is an economic liberal.

You say Delay's an economic liberal as if it's news. What kind of Southerners did you think the Republicans recruited from the democrats post-LBJ? Libertarians?

Spanky · 04-20-2005, 12:47 AM

The best oponnent to have in politics is a wounded opponent. If you kill your oppenent, then you have to face a new stronger one. So you wound but don't kill. The smart party kills their own wounded and replaces them with someone strong. That is just politics 101. This is not a debating club where you get oratory point for good speeches. It is congressional inside politics.

Skeks in the city · 04-20-2005, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
But Kennedy didn't look at foreign precedents as "controlling authority" for anything. If he thought that, we'd all agree that he could be impeached.

Foreign law should be irrelevant to US law. Period. It shouldn't be used to support any consitutional theory to any degree whatsoever. In fact, if the Frenchies come out one way, doing the exact opposite is probably a good idea.

Tyrone Slothrop · 04-20-2005, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
The best oponnent to have in politics is a wounded opponent. If you kill your oppenent, then you have to face a new stronger one. So you wound but don't kill. The smart party kills their own wounded and replaces them with someone strong. That is just politics 101. This is not a debating club where you get oratory point for good speeches. It is congressional inside politics.

Not responsive to this post alone, but what the hay. From where I'm sitting, what is remarkable about DeLay is that he is so corrupt. The man seems to operate under no principle other than the pursuit of power, and he's willing to push the envelope to get it. The K Street Project is the sort of thing that we can thank DeLay for. Finding ways to get illegal corporate money to Texas legislators to buy redistricting. That sort of thing. When he needed to divert attention from his ethical troubles, he sided with the cultural conservatives on the Schiavo thing, but that was totally calculated, IMHO.

DeLay's ruthlessness and corruption is what makes the GOP control of the House of Representatives work the way it does. Get rid of him, and you will either need to replace him with someone equally corrupt, or you will lose some measure of lockstep control. Which wouldn't be a bad thing for the country, but I digress.

Gattigap · 04-20-2005, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
You're great great grandma wasn't impregnated by her hubbie- it was a Private from the 21st illinois- does that shit break your will to fight?

No.

Gattigap · 04-20-2005, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Is losing such an effective whip a reasonable price to pay for what sort of looks like nothing more than giving up so things can move on?

Well said, bilmore. I for one am encouraged to see elements of the GOP rally 'round its man. Next step - group photo. Some pics of DeLay with each and every Republican in Congress will be golden in sending those Dems to defeat in '06 and '08.

Hell, I'll buy the film.

Gattigap · 04-20-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
From a practical political standpoint his negatives outweigh his positives. You may get your rocks off when you hear him, but that doesn't help the party. The man is a liability. And its people like you that just can't see how he helps the Democrats that are going to cost us the Congress.

Spanky,

I hear ya. But before y'all toss Delay overboard (together with, in every liberal's dream scenario, Frist in a glorious twofer), please wait until Frist rams through the destruction of filibusters. Might come in handy later.

Thanks,
Gattigap

ltl/fb · 04-20-2005, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Spanky,

I hear ya. But before y'all toss Delay overboard (together with, in every liberal's dream scenario, Frist in a glorious twofer), please wait until Frist rams through the destruction of filibusters. Might come in handy later.

Thanks,
Gattigap

I think they should keep DeLay around to help them with the 2006 election cycle. He can work with all the people with contested seats, making public appearances with them. It will mobilize their base.

bilmore · 04-20-2005, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
I hear ya. But before y'all toss Delay overboard (together with, in every liberal's dream scenario, Frist in a glorious twofer), please wait until Frist rams through the destruction of filibusters. Might come in handy later.

Naw. They're gonna have a change of heart right before the next congressional elections, and put the rule back. Just in case.

bilmore · 04-20-2005, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
The best oponnent to have in politics is a wounded opponent. If you kill your oppenent, then you have to face a new stronger one. So you wound but don't kill. The smart party kills their own wounded and replaces them with someone strong. That is just politics 101. This is not a debating club where you get oratory point for good speeches. It is congressional inside politics.

So this is why the Dems are piling on so much right now, years before a vote - they want us to keep him!

I'm so naive.

(P.S. No, This IS a debating club where you get oratory points for good speeches.)

Gattigap · 04-20-2005, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Naw. They're gonna have a change of heart right before the next congressional elections, and put the rule back. Just in case.

And thusly is the bell unrung.

bilmore · 04-20-2005, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
And thusly is the bell unrung.

You tawk funny.

Spanky · 04-20-2005, 01:37 AM

Normally the Republicans are pretty good about throwing their trash overboard. Lesson from Watergate. We usually put party before individuals - we threw out Gingrich, Livingston, Lott etc. The Dems usually circle the wagons to their detriment. They tried to hold onto Wright way too long. And Clinton. If the Senate Dems had gotten Clinton to resign, Gore would have been an incumbant and almost certainly would have won in 2000. A Republican would have been forced to resign.

And as far as Delay getting stuff through. I just don't see it. Where are the spending cuts, free trade agreement with central America, tax reform etc. They did get the tax cuts through but I think that was more Bush than Delay. Hell, Reagan got Tax cuts through with a Dem majority. Discipline - what Discipline?

The Dems are piling on because they are wounding him. But they can't push him out. They make him look as bad as possible and then hope we are dumb enough to keep him around.

ltl/fb · 04-20-2005, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Naw. They're gonna have a change of heart right before the next congressional elections, and put the rule back. Just in case.

Good plan. Because, y'all will always be controlling everything forevermore, and will never need to work with us. Making the gulf as deep as possible is clearly the way to go. Kudos. Charming.