Firms and Salary Information - Ohio - Page 2

andViolins · 03-31-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ms. naughty diplomat
oh, and violins, i no longer feel upset with you, because i just started a thread on the detroit board and not only have the first post, but i started the thread as well.

which is way cooler than what you did :p

ms. naughty diplomat

C'mon, how could you sta mad at me anyway? I soothe the savage beast with my sweet lilting sounds.

aV

p.s. still just me you and spooky. If this keeps up, we should just meet for coffee or drinks IRL.

andViolins · 04-01-2003, 12:04 PM

An article in the Plain Dealer today about the massive Ohio budget deficit and ways that the legislature can close the $3 billion dollar gap.

http://www.cleveland.com/politics/in...0272118710.xml

One possible item is closing one of Ohio's public law schools. Thoughts? Suggestions on which one?

aV

spookyfish · 04-01-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
An article in the Plain Dealer today about the massive Ohio budget deficit and ways that the legislature can close the $3 billion dollar gap.

http://www.cleveland.com/politics/in...0272118710.xml

One possible item is closing one of Ohio's public law schools. Thoughts? Suggestions on which one?

aV

Wow -- That's scary. I guess the first question is, are there too many lawyers being turned out every year in the state? I don't know the answer to this one. To tell the truth, I wasn't sure which of the law schools were public and which were private. So, I looked up the list. They are:

Akron
Cincinnati (I don't know why I had it in my head they were private)
Cleveland State
Ohio State
Toledo

Let's take two right off the top.

Ohio State (Come on, it's OHIO State, for god's sake). Located in the capital, and furthermore, as everyone knows, they are the be all and end all to all outside the state, and many within. Lower Tier I school -- I don't think so. Though I cannot confirm this, I'm pretty sure they would send the highest number of grads out of state compared to the other schools.

Cincinnati - Taft's alma mater? Tier 2 School. One of the larger markets. Don't think so.

That leaves on the short list:

Akron
Cleveland State
Toledo

What are the objective criteria they will use to determine which, if any close?

Population?
Size of Market served?
Bar Pass Rates?
Alternatives
Recent Investment in Physical Structures
Alumni involved in politics, particularly the General Assembly.
U.S. News rankings -- can these really be construed as objective?

If you look at physical distribution throughout the state, the amount of public law schools does not seem excessive. Most of the major population centers in the state are served by one public law school.

With respect to Cleveland State, they recently built a law library, I believe they may graduate the largest number of students every year (though Ohio State may graduate more, I'm not sure). Tier 3 school. It's also serving the major legal market in the state. They have a ton of graduates in the local judiciary and local politics. Bar pass rates are a bit lower than some schools, (but higher than others) plus the area is served by Case, so, I don't know. Although for my money, I'd rather avoid paying $20 K a year for an education if possible. Plus, I'm sure most of their grads stay local.

Akron - Interestingly enough, I see they quoted Dean Aynes in the article. My guess is they may be sweating it more than most. The facilities are decent, though the library sucks. Smaller market, though larger than Toledo. A fair amount of politicos that are alums. Has the reputation of a good bar passage rate, at least that's the hype. Pretty sure most of their grads stay local.

Loss of the school would be a blow to the University and a town that has taken a lot of hits over the past 25 years. No real competition locally, unless you count the Cleveland area. My guess is that that could enter into the calculus. By the way, I looked at the U.S. News rankings. When did Akron slip to a Tier 4? I thought they were Tier 3 until relatively recently. Maybe it's their shitty high-school like library facilities.

Toledo - Tier 3 school. I really don't know enough about them. Are there any other schools close to them? I hate to say it, but UT always seems like an afterthought with regard to the attention it receives. Does this make them a candidate? I'm not sure. I think the fact that they serve a more "remote" part of the state could favor keeping them open.

spooky(just my thoughts but then again, what do I know?)fish

ms. naughty diplomat · 04-02-2003, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins

One possible item is closing one of Ohio's public law schools. Thoughts? Suggestions on which one?

aV

how much money would closing a law school actually save? couldn't the law schools raise tuition money???

i'd suspect that akron would be the most likely law school to get closed - out of the public schools, cleveland marshall and akron are the only two that are close together and cleveland marshall is much larger so should have more alumni support.

andViolins · 04-02-2003, 02:59 PM

Judge orders independent probe of the bankruptcy case:

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaind...9429247770.xml

aV

andViolins · 04-02-2003, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ms. naughty diplomat
how much money would closing a law school actually save? couldn't the law schools raise tuition money???

i'd suspect that akron would be the most likely law school to get closed - out of the public schools, cleveland marshall and akron are the only two that are close together and cleveland marshall is much larger so should have more alumni support.

That's a good question NYD. I always thought it was rather cheap to run a law school (as opposed to medical or dental - labs and stuff has to cost a lot) which was why Ohio ended up with more law schools than Canada. I imagine whichever school goes up on the block the alumni and local leaders will raise a big stink.

aV

spookyfish · 04-02-2003, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
That's a good question NYD. I always thought it was rather cheap to run a law school (as opposed to medical or dental - labs and stuff has to cost a lot) which was why Ohio ended up with more law schools than Canada. I imagine whichever school goes up on the block the alumni and local leaders will raise a big stink.

aV

I would agree. Not only are law schools cheaper to run than other professional schools, but the per student revenue they produce far exceeds all other colleges in the university. I watched my own school jack up tuition by about 8-11 percent per annum in my years there.

spookyfish

ms. naughty diplomat · 04-03-2003, 06:53 PM

if either of you guys care, the new usnews rankings are now out and posted on the usnews website. as far as i can tell the main difference in this year's rankings is that they now give numerical ranks to the top 100 and have "top 100," "third tier," and "fourth tier." which kind of makes the us news rankings even more absurd - but i guess that cincinatti (ranked 51st) and case western (ranked 57th) are probably happy to have numerical ranks rather than being just "2nd tier."

oh and apparently akron moved back into the third tier and cleveland marshall dropped down to the 4th tier. i didn't notice any other changes in ranks of ohio law schools. i guess ohio state changed, they are now at 38th.

ms. naughty diplomat

ms. naughty diplomat · 04-03-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
That's a good question NYD. I always thought it was rather cheap to run a law school (as opposed to medical or dental - labs and stuff has to cost a lot) which was why Ohio ended up with more law schools than Canada. I imagine whichever school goes up on the block the alumni and local leaders will raise a big stink.

aV

my understanding is that colleges and universities love having law schools because they collect more in tuition than the costs they spend for hte law school.

how much state support does the state of ohio give the law schools? i'd assume that most of the state money could probably be replaced with increases in fees and tuition - and given how many people want to become lawyers they would probably still attract students.

ms. naughty diplomat

andViolins · 04-03-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ms. naughty diplomat
oh and apparently akron moved back into the third tier and cleveland marshall dropped down to the 4th tier. i didn't notice any other changes in ranks of ohio law schools. i guess ohio state changed, they are now at 38th.

ms. naughty diplomat

Any idea if that is higher or lower than last year for Ohio State?

aV

ms. naughty diplomat · 04-04-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
Any idea if that is higher or lower than last year for Ohio State?

aV

me: i think that they were 40th last year so i think its higher. but its really about the same. its not like two spots really makes much difference. although if you've seen the nyu vrs. columbia debates on the old new york bored you'd never realize it.

i'm surprised that cincinatti ranks so high - they are at the very top of the 2nd tier.

ms. naughty diplomat

andViolins · 04-04-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ms. naughty diplomat
me: i think that they were 40th last year so i think its higher. but its really about the same. its not like two spots really makes much difference. although if you've seen the nyu vrs. columbia debates on the old new york bored you'd never realize it.

i'm surprised that cincinatti ranks so high - they are at the very top of the 2nd tier.

ms. naughty diplomat

I see that Capital and UD are ranked at the bottom again. I wonder what one yr at either school costs now? $25,000? $30,000? I just can't see spending that much to go to a school ranked that low. I will give credit to UD though, they are trying to develop a niche with intellectual property.

aV

ms. naughty diplomat · 04-07-2003, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
I see that Capital and UD are ranked at the bottom again. I wonder what one yr at either school costs now? $25,000? $30,000? I just can't see spending that much to go to a school ranked that low. I will give credit to UD though, they are trying to develop a niche with intellectual property.

aV

me: personally i think that the primary purpose of lower tier private law schools is to separate gullible lawyer wannabes from their money. if all their students had trustfunds and were rich it wouldn't be so outrageous, but borrowing 100k in debt to go to a4th tier law school is absolutely idiotic. and i really can't see paying private school prices for a non-top 10 or so law school.

ms. naughty diplomat

ms. naughty diplomat · 04-07-2003, 02:36 PM

i see that aV is now the moderator of this board and is thus in charge of administering discipline around here. so aV, when are you going to start your disciplinary duty by spanking the bare bottom of a naughty diplomat?

(i'll keep my thong on if you prefer)

ms. naughty diplomat

spookyfish · 04-07-2003, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ms. naughty diplomat
i see that aV is now the moderator of this board. so aV, when are you going to start administering discipline to naughty diplomats by spanking their bare bottoms?

ms. naughty diplomat

He's the man now, dog. I already asked him about moderating. He can edit posts and there's a special moderator's board, but at least I won't be forced to clean up my language.

Re: the spanking of bare bottoms of naughty diplomats, well, to the victor go the spoils

)

spooky(see what happens when I leave for a few days?

fish)