The babyjesuschristsuperstar on Board: filling the moral void of Clinton’s legacy

[SlaveNoMore]

ltl/fb
You went to Yale, I mean, the porno awards? No way! Who knew?

213-11

[Aloha Mr. Learned Hand]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
NY Times had a fun chart today comparing the number of words used by each senator during "questioning" compared with the number used by Alito. All but Kohl and one other spoke more words than Alito during their 30 mins. Biden had a 4:1 ratio or more, IIRC.

I saw that. That was great. Biden managed to get all of 5 questions off in his 30 minutes. No word on whether he actually composed them all himself...

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
If you wait long enough you don't have to pay the interest either. Considering you need to keep th debt at twenty percent GDP, then todays debt, fifty years from now, does not need to be paid back nor does the interest need to be paid back. If all you had in fifty years is todays debt, todays debt plus interest would not be enough to keep the debt at the twenty percent GDP level (I don't know what the optimum debt level is - but I am just throwing out twenty percent). As the economy grows you would actually have to borrow more money because todays debt plus interest in the long run is not enough money to keep the debt where it needs to be.

The debt from 1960 plus interest would not be enough to maintain the debt of today. That debt from 1960 plus its interest will forever remain in the national debt (and should not be paid back). So we will never have to pay back the debt prior to 1960 plus interest.

For our country, that needs to keep a certain amount of debt, with an infinite life span, and infinite growth, todays debt, if it remains in the debt long enough will never have to be paid back.

Do you get it now?

Quite honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I agree with you that the GOP has been appallingly hypocritical in saying it wants small govt while growing the govt.

I don't care so much about the hypocrisy. Let's all just forget the easy talk about "small government" and pay attention to what they're doing. Massive spending, deficits, and tax cuts for the rich.

But I don't think the solution is to start taxing us instead of borrowing. The solution is to unpopularly level with the American people and tell them the benefits they demand have to be scaled back.

One, it wouldn't be "starting" to tax us if we returned to paying the same taxes we paid a few years ago. Two, the American people would rather pay the taxes and get the benefits. If there was political support for doing what you describe, we wouldn't have these deficits. It's political suicide.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Two, the American people would rather pay the taxes and get the benefits.

Utter fucking nonsense.

You know as well as I do that this is the "American" paradox.

Everyone wants a damn handout - yet no one wants to pay for it.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I don't care so much about the hypocrisy. Let's all just forget the easy talk about "small government" and pay attention to what they're doing. Massive spending, deficits, and tax cuts for the rich.



One, it wouldn't be "starting" to tax us if we returned to paying the same taxes we paid a few years ago. Two, the American people would rather pay the taxes and get the benefits. If there was political support for doing what you describe, we wouldn't have these deficits. It's political suicide.

Ty, how many times can it be explained to you that the tax cuts are not "for" the rich. Yes, they give the rich more than they do the poor. But saying they're "for" the rich is just dead wrong. Do you really believe the GOP is actively engaged in economic class warfare? Of course not - you've admitted they're not. Yet you still use that Berkleyish, Mooreish phrase, "for the rich," implying active GOP attacks on the poor. I suggest in the future you use, "tax cuts which give more money to the rich than the poor."

But then that would force you to admit the tax cuts are neutral, wouldn't it?

I don't agree that the American people would prefer to be taxed and provided benefits by the govt over not being taxed and finding the benefits for themselves. If we put that to a referendum, I think the Dems, and their social-engineering left wing, would get trounced in the vote.

People will always take cash in hand over promises of future benefits which are likely to be cut. We don't have such referendums because, even the GOP would be uncomfortable with the extent to which people would vote to slash taxes and programs.

Bush's SS plan didn't work because it was byzantine and retirees were frightened because they don't like risk and things they don't understand.

BUT, if it were repackaged as a simple choice to opt out of SS, everyone with a wherewithall to do so, or even the ability to reasonably risk doing so, would leave SS. That vote would show who wants a handout pretty damned quickly.

All this said, sadly, I must agree with Slave. In the end, far too many Americans want both low taxes and handouts, and that'll always cripple any true tax and govt reform efforts. We're too fucking addicted to the notion of Uncle Sam bailing us out.

[Captain]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda

I'm sure you missed it when Teddy introduced Specter's letter replying to Teddy's letter that Arlen never got.

Kennedy is the guy with nothing to lose. So he gets to ask all the high-risk questions. I have no doubt that all of these guys confer to coordinate their attack, and they give Kennedy all the dogs, to see if any of them bite, and then two or three really prime ones to make up for it. As a result, Kennedy is usually one of the more amusing people to watch, and every now and then he hits a nerve.

Think of him as the Sebby equivalent.

But because of this, there is no point to ever siding with Ted Kennedy. It is a recipe for disaster. But it's still good to have him around, just like it was good to have Strom Thurmond around.

[Captain]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Mark Warner
Barack Obama
Probably some others that don't occur to me at the moment.

This election is McCains to lose.

What the Democrats really need is a primary that lets them test people like Warner and Obama and see which of them really resonates. But as long as some of the big but not viable candidates are around, like Hilary Clinton, Gore and Kerry, none of them have a chance.

On the other hand, as long as the Republicans don't beat him up too badly in the primary, McCain comes into this with an enormous ability to take votes away from the center. He has stayed sufficiently distant from the Bush administration to avoid its liabilities. And it is hard to see him not taking some big states from the Democrats in the rust belt, from Pennsylvania to Minnesota.

If the Republican's want, they could probably establish a center-right dominance in government for the foreseeable future. The biggest obstacle to this, ironically, is Bush, Cheney and their friends.

[Captain]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Ty, how many times can it be explained to you that the tax cuts are not "for" the rich. Yes, they give the rich more than they do the poor. But saying they're "for" the rich is just dead wrong. Do you really believe the GOP is actively engaged in economic class warfare? Of course not - you've admitted they're not. Yet you still use that Berkleyish, Mooreish phrase, "for the rich," implying active GOP attacks on the poor. I suggest in the future you use, "tax cuts which give more money to the rich than the poor."

Get a grip. Tax cuts which give me more money than you are "for" me.

They may have other purposes in mind, but I'm the one cashing the check.

[Captain]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Utter fucking nonsense.

You know as well as I do that this is the "American" paradox.

Everyone wants a damn handout - yet no one wants to pay for it.

Can't we just borrow the money and not pay it back?

[dtb]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Utter fucking nonsense.

You know as well as I do that this is the "American" paradox.

Everyone wants a damn handout - yet no one wants to pay for it.

Just how everyone wants a paycheck, without having to work. Or maybe that's just me.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by dtb
Just how everyone wants a paycheck, without having to work. Or maybe that's just me.

and by "work" you mean "sit around making fag jokes at each other and spamming people with gay-joke emails?"

[dtb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
and by "work" you mean "sit around making fag jokes at each other and spamming people with gay-joke emails?"

Exactly. Who wants to do that?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Captain
Kennedy is the guy with nothing to lose. So he gets to ask all the high-risk questions. I have no doubt that all of these guys confer to coordinate their attack, and they give Kennedy all the dogs, to see if any of them bite, and then two or three really prime ones to make up for it. As a result, Kennedy is usually one of the more amusing people to watch, and every now and then he hits a nerve.

Think of him as the Sebby equivalent.

But because of this, there is no point to ever siding with Ted Kennedy. It is a recipe for disaster. But it's still good to have him around, just like it was good to have Strom Thurmond around.

At least Kennedy has the moral high ground when launching these attacks.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Captain
Kennedy is the guy with nothing to lose. So he gets to ask all the high-risk questions. I have no doubt that all of these guys confer to coordinate their attack, and they give Kennedy all the dogs, to see if any of them bite, and then two or three really prime ones to make up for it. As a result, Kennedy is usually one of the more amusing people to watch, and every now and then he hits a nerve.

Think of him as the Sebby equivalent.

But because of this, there is no point to ever siding with Ted Kennedy. It is a recipe for disaster. But it's still good to have him around, just like it was good to have Strom Thurmond around.

I now officially quit the boards. I can taken just about anything, but this... I at least have pretensions to/of dignity.