Making Baby Jesus Cry

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Holy shit. After rhapsodizing about Freedom, Democracy, Human Rights and Capitalism for over 2 years, the rhetorical leap required for Bush to move to a policy of "fuck it, let God sort 'em out" will be impressive indeed.

Another ridiculous comment. I did not say that I thought there would be a civil war. I said that even if there is a protracted civil war the people in Iraq (And us) are better off. Do you think the Iraqi people would have been better off staying in SH's regime even if the civil war turns really bad? I think we should stay in and finish the job. And I don't think when we leave things will be all the bad. All I am saying if even if we did leave a civil war behind us things still are better off.

I don't think people appreciate how bad Saddam Husseins regime was. If you did you wouldn't be vocal on how the war was such a huge mistake.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Hear that, balt? Plat-I-Num.

Damn, you people are relentless. You know how much more a platinum vibrator is than a gold one?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Yes, well, parents tend to talk to each other.

Of course, I also think praying for divine intervention is kind of pointless, but then I'm a bit a Calvinist.

Yeah, but sometimes if you get one parent to plead your case to the other parent the results are better.

I tend to agree on the praying thing. I can't remember the last time I said a formal prayer asking for something. Though I've been known to say "oh please" to no one in particular on more than one occassion. And sometimes to someone in particular.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by baltassoc
No doubt some of the things would still get purchased, but there is an inefficiency introduced through a gift-giving process. Items get purchased that the recipient doesn't realy need. Maybe they take them back, maybe they don't. Meanwhile, the things that are actually needed are actually purchased.

Even at a 10 - 20 percent boost, it's enough to mean the difference between growth and stagnation.

[Fuck. I can't believe I'm arguing with you over this. You are such a fucking troll.]

Why is this a troll topic? Its a real and honest musing. Obviously there is a benefit to commerce that is measurable and (I think) there is a productiviity drag effect. My gut tells me the former outweighs the latter but not by design, however I was curious as to what others thought. You used industries you work for as examples. For clients of mine, I would bet the drag substantially outweighs any benefit (actually I doubt there is any benefit). Further, I would say in my practice for my firm, its probably an overall loss. Year end deals crammed into December may make for a bigger month, but those deals, for my firm, are not driven by Christmas, and would happen anyway. Also, in what is probably an aberation, KNOCK ON WOOD, I have not had a substantial year end deal in years and yet I do lots of deals and regularly bill in excess of 2500, but usually adjust my workload by design with a dash of luck to finish anything big by the first week of Dec.

Anyway, if you think its a troll thing, no need to respond to any of the above.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Spanky
Another ridiculous comment. I did not say that I thought there would be a civil war. I said that even if there is a protracted civil war the people in Iraq (And us) are better off. Do you think the Iraqi people would have been better off staying in SH's regime even if the civil war turns really bad?

And what I'm saying is that if there is a civil war, it has real prospects for spiraling out of control into a regional conflict involving Turkey, Saudi Arabia (and other Sunni-predominant states I'm not thinking of at the moment) and Iran, for starters.

That real risk, and the geopolitical consequences of it, make the evaluation of "oh, the Iraqis are better off, no biggie if we just go home and they have a little civil war" a bit irrelevant.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Plus, damnit, I like the gift giving and the parties and the days off and the solstice and the pretty lights and the decorations and the egg nog and the pretending to be nice to one another and the football and the Grinch on TV (Karloff, not Carrey) and the trees and the mistletoe and the ball dropping and all that crap. And it's all about me. Or it should be.

You are a drag on the economy. Your workplace does not get a bump from Christmas (I dont think).

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Yeah, but sometimes if you get one parent to plead your case to the other parent the results are better.

I tend to agree on the praying thing. I can't remember the last time I said a formal prayer asking for something. Though I've been known to say "oh please" to no one in particular on more than one occassion. And sometimes to someone in particular.

I am perfectly aware that if this were a fair world I would get screwed. Being born in America into a middle class family and having twenty digits is way over the fairness quota on this planet. Praying for someone elses health - maybe, but praying for personal gain seems a little bit ridiculous when half the world goes to bed hungry every night.

When I gamble I get annoyed when people around me pray becuase that last thing we need is a just higher power paying attention to what is happening.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
That's not a crucifix.

I know that. There is a not a pic of the jesus laden one I have on. It is burnished silver with a little ivory jesus on it. All white, although I am tempted to colour in stigmata.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Why is this a troll topic? Its a real and honest musing. Obviously there is a benefit to commerce that is measurable and (I think) there is a productiviity drag effect. My gut tells me the former outweighs the latter but not by design, however I was curious as to what others thought. You used industries you work for as examples. For clients of mine, I would bet the drag substantially outweighs any benefit (actually I doubt there is any benefit). Further, I would say in my practice for my firm, its probably an overall loss. Year end deals crammed into December may make for a bigger month, but those deals, for my firm, are not driven by Christmas, and would happen anyway. Also, in what is probably an aberation, KNOCK ON WOOD, I have not had a substantial year end deal in years and yet I do lots of deals and regularly bill in excess of 2500, but usually adjust my workload by design with a dash of luck to finish anything big by the first week of Dec.

Anyway, if you think its a troll thing, no need to respond to any of the above.

FWIW, here, it's a lot harder to schedule meetings and/or get anything done in June, July and August than it is in December. The summer holidays are spread out over twelve weeks and no one has a clue what anyone else's schedules are. I have about six or seven projects on hold until summer is over and done with and I'm assured that most people involved are going to be around. During the winter holidays, everyone is pretty much on the same schedule and it's only the week between Christmas and New Years that causes any problems. It's easy enough to plan around that week.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
I am perfectly aware that if this were a fair world I would get screwed. Being born in America into a middle class family and having twenty digits is way over the fairness quota on this planet. Praying for someone elses health - maybe, but praying for personal gain seems a little bit ridiculous when half the world goes to bed hungry every night.

When I gamble I get annoyed when people around me pray becuase that last thing we need is a just higher power paying attention to what is happening.

I pray to the babyjesus to give me strength, focus and resolve to effect my reality, whatever it is comprised of. Eye of the Tiger.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
FWIW, here, it's a lot harder to schedule meetings and/or get anything done in June, July and August than it is in December. The summer holidays are spread out over twelve weeks and no one has a clue what anyone else's schedules are. I have about six or seven projects on hold until summer is over and done with and I'm assured that most people involved are going to be around. During the winter holidays, everyone is pretty much on the same schedule and it's only the week between Christmas and New Years that causes any problems. It's easy enough to plan around that week.

Okay, fair enough, I deem you a productive member of society. Again. For now.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Gattigap
And what I'm saying is that if there is a civil war, it has real prospects for spiraling out of control into a regional conflict involving Turkey, Saudi Arabia (and other Sunni-predominant states I'm not thinking of at the moment) and Iran, for starters.

That real risk, and the geopolitical consequences of it, make the evaluation of "oh, the Iraqis are better off, no biggie if we just go home and they have a little civil war" a bit irrelevant.

When was the last time a civil war spiraled out of control sucking in its neighbors and creatinga large scale war. In case you have checked. The cold war is over. I kept hearing that about the Balkan war yet it went on for seven years without one neighbor getting into a war with another neighbor. NATO got involved eventually but we weren't a neighbor and no neighbor of Serbia took us on in their defense.. Major nations are not going to get into a war over Iraq. There is no more balance of power. The power is now totally out of balance with us having most of it. New rules.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
When was the last time a civil war spiraled out of control sucking in its neighbors and creatinga large scale war. In case you have checked. The cold war is over. I kept hearing that about the Balkan war yet it went on for sevem years without one neighbor getting into a war with another neighbor. NATO got involved eventually but we weren't a neighbor and no neighbor of of Serbia took us on in their defense.. Major nations are not going to get into a war over Iraq.

Assuming their neighbors got involved against us, it would give us an excuse to clean up the whole godforesaken region. Maybe take out Iran, or secure the oil fields in Saudi, which is the real prize at the end of the day.

Israel could secure the West Bank.


Good times good times.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
You are a drag on the economy. Your workplace does not get a bump from Christmas (I dont think).

Hmph. One of our components sells lovely Christmas cards every year, and I think their profits, er, proceeds from those are in the multi-millions. Plus, fundraising always increases around the holidays. People are generous around that time of year for some reason.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Spanky
When was the last time a civil war spiraled out of control sucking in its neighbors and creatinga large scale war. In case you have checked. The cold war is over. I kept hearing that about the Balkan war yet it went on for seven years without one neighbor getting into a war with another neighbor. NATO got involved eventually but we weren't a neighbor and no neighbor of Serbia took us on in their defense.. Major nations are not going to get into a war over Iraq. There is no more balance of power. The power is now totally out of balance with us having most of it. New rules.

Yeah, yeah. The Balkans didn't have oil, for one thing.