Waiting for Fitzgerald

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Plus, how could anyone boycott carnitas?

In deference to the moderate radical islamics, no?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
No, I'm saying its easy and brings no moral pangs to ignore the torture and killing of torturers and killers. I wouldn't vote to allow torture, and I wouldn't engage in torture.

But I'm not about to rail against the torture of the sort of people who did things like AQ and the Taliban do.

Don't give me some shit about "If you don't stand up to torture here, you're standing up FOR it everywhere." We're beyond that shit reasoning/sloganeering/gamesmanship, aren't we?

Yes we are.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Captain
The question is, how do we know these are the sort of people who do things like AQ and the Taliban?

I don't think your view is that someone must be guilty or they wouldn't have been arrested, but tell me if I am wrong on that.

I'll bet you think you're pretty clever for finding that Achilles heel in my argument, which pretty much fucks up my argument completely. Well, to that, man, I say....



You are pretty smart.

Uncle.


But I never really expected to slip that one past the goalie anyway, so there (as I take my ball and leave...).

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the article points to one reason- the location could make a friendly nation an increased terror target.

. . .

What the CIA does should disgust and frighten you, and you shouldn't know about it.

I don't disagree with not disclosing the location. But the existence? In a free and open democracy? I don't have much trust for any of our leaders, regardless of party. Why should I let them tell me to "trust us". The only thing I can digest that's made this way is sausage.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
His motives were fine, his acts were criminal.

[outable] eta: str8 moment: I once bought his first wife's dad some beers. At chadwicks [/outable]

Bullshit on his "fine" motives. He was a spy, and I could care less that he acted for Israel instead of another state. Israel acts in Israel's interests -- happily, their interests coincide with our interests much of the time, but that doesn't change the fact that Pollard betrayed his country at the behest of the Israelis.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
What ultimately fascinates me about stories like this is that - although these black sites are only "known about" by a handful of officials both here in the US and in the host country - this author, as well as countless others, sure seems to know a hell of a lot about them.

Probably a bunch of people formerly in teh know had their own negative gut reactions, and were happy to talk.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
You are right its no excuse.

It does strike me, though, that almost all of this abuse comes from his fellow blacks. Penske would attribute this to teh Stockholm syndrome.

But, if so, that can't be racism, can it? After all, its impossible for blacks to be racists because they are the victims of racism, right? Right? [I've been on the other side of that argument a time or two.]

S_A_M

Its racism by proxy.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Spanky
I don't think that the founding fathers would have ever imagined that foreign nationals covertly working to kill US nationals would get protection from the US Constitution.

Perhaps not. But I don't think they thought their ideas on democracy were so bad that they shouldn't ultimately be adopted and applied throughout the world.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
WMDs. Now they are in Syria and Iran. Good thing we have such a convenient platform to launch the battles against those two terrorist states.

Is that from the bases at which there's insufficient armour?

bTW, is that where teh Iraq WMDs were moved to by Saddam from his rat hole?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
WMDs. Now they are in Syria and Iran. Good thing we have such a convenient platform to launch the battles against those two terrorist states.

Is that from the bases at which there's insufficient armour?

bTW, is that where teh Iraq WMDs were moved to by Saddam from his rat hole?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Looks like ol' Billy Jeff still has the touch.



eta: Quadrangular!

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
they are about self-defence, not imperialistic conquest.

This makes no sense. A destroyed Syrian military does wonders for Israel's self-defense. Imperialistic conquest - what are you talking about?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Bullshit on his "fine" motives. He was a spy, and I could care less that he acted for Israel instead of another state. Israel acts in Israel's interests -- happily, their interests coincide with our interests much of the time, but that doesn't change the fact that Pollard betrayed his country at the behest of the Israelis.

I acknowledged that the act was criminal. Motives are not criminalised, acts are (that's right, right? You lawyers would know better than I). I stand as being fine with his motives and also with being against his acts (not dissimilar to how I feel about a parent of a child who is molested who then kills the molester).

Further, I am of the opinion, despite his motives and our alliance with Israel, that Mr. Pollard should serve out his fully sentence. In the US.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Captain
John Andre, Arnold's co-conspirator, was hung only after being found guilty by a military tribunal, and Washington was subject, even during war, to criticism for providing him with an inadequate trial.

The Founders would have had a number of different views, but, ironically, the more conservative among them would, I believe, have been very protective of the concept that later became known as due process. They viewed their right to a trial by jury, their right of habeus corpus, and other such rights as among their most fundamental.

This really bears no relevene to what is happening today. Since the founders allowed slavery to continue (and many were slaveholders), and only allowed white men to vote, it is not like they should be used as the ultimate guidance when it comes to the proper respect for human rights. I don't think any of them would have cared at all how a muslim prisoner (especially one that had targeted women and children) were treated.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Looks like ol' Billy Jeff still has the touch.



eta: Quadrangular!

He's pointing to his intern in 2010.