Politics: J'accuse! - Page 181

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) · 04-23-2004, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
It does? I'm not all that current on the issue, but this is news to me.

I'm amazed the partial birth abortion law passed without Democratic or Republican support.

From the 2000 GOP platform:

"We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children.__Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions."

link

that doesn't sound like a "return the issue to the states" position.

Not Me · 04-23-2004, 07:28 PM

If he were smart, he would pick Gephardt or Bill Richardson.

sgtclub · 04-23-2004, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I'm amazed the partial birth abortion law passed without Democratic or Republican support.

From the 2000 GOP platform:

"We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children.__Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions."

link

that doesn't sound like a "return the issue to the states" position.

Yep

The Larry Davis Experience · 04-23-2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
No in general, if it's principled. I just think Kerry (and other pols) make decisions based purely on political grounds, so when they do they should be called on it and asked what has changed since 72 or 75 that made you change your mind. Ask Bush that question, and the answer is easy - 9/11. Ask Kerry and it's also easy - he's pandering.

This thread is rather cold at this point, but I'm posting anyway, darnit.

Nation building before 9/11 had a strategic security aspect as well, not just the humanitarian one that clearly rubbed GWB the wrong way. Although most of us (including, I would argue, GWB) didn't see an anarchic Somalia as a threat to the US, we all now realize that such a country could be a fertile training ground for terrorists. To say 9/11 changed this question is another way of saying he was incorrect to discount the security aspect of nation building in developing the principle behind his prior statements.

I think what you are trying to say is that Bush believes what he is saying at the time, but then changes his mind and believes what he's saying the next time. This can still be superior to what you see as Kerry politicianness, but that's a different spin than I read from your posts. Or maybe you aren't really focusing on this as much as I apparently just have.

Two other random points as I wait for the returned call that will send my out into the sunny Friday afternoon:

- Does the 9/11 "everything changed" rationale apply to Kerry too, or just those who were president during that attack? I know there's been some noise made about Kerry's voting against spending money on intel back in the 90s. I realize that that claim has been rather soubdly debunked on its merits, but it presents a useful example that seems pretty identical to the excuse your post makes for Bush's flip(s).

- Can anyone tell me what the cutoff year is beyond which Bush will not answer questions about what illegal substances he took? I thought it was in the early seventies. I ask because to some of us the pro-intoxicants to pro-Bible flipflop is as disconcerting as any. Although I do concede that it's probably for the best that our president is no longer hitting the sauce like he did in the past.

Hank Chinaski · 04-23-2004, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
- - Can anyone tell me what the cutoff year is beyond which Bush will not answer questions about what illegal substances he took? I thought it was in the early seventies. I ask because to some of us the pro-intoxicants to pro-Bible flipflop is as disconcerting as any.

no offense but deciding not to dope anymore is okay. I wished he had said "yeah I did coke, and of course pot, duh- once or twice peyote!!!!"

it would be better than well i held a joint to my moutn but didn't inhale* what a waste that was- if true- why the fuck not just pass?

*no monica dress stain jokes please!

The Larry Davis Experience · 04-23-2004, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
no offense but deciding not to dope anymore is okay. I wished he had said "yeah I did coke, and of course pot, duh- once or twice peyote!!!!"

No offense taken. I agree with all you say. I'm just observing that we are reviewing Kerry's statements as political manifestos at a time when Bush was rather less serious about stuff not involving partying.

(Or maybe that wasn't the same time, that's why I was asking about the dates).

Quote:

it would be better than well i held a joint to my moutn but didn't inhale* what a waste that was- if true- why the fuck not just pass?

Is it ok for me to ask you to pick just one Dem at a time to use the "at least Bush is better than ______" argument? Or is that a trump card that can never be beaten?

Poor Bart....always goes rock....

Hank Chinaski · 04-23-2004, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
is that a trump card that can never be beaten?

better to ask: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

The Larry Davis Experience · 04-23-2004, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
better to ask: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Touche.

btw, I thought for sure in honor of the playoffs we'd get your avatar in some Ben Wallace cornrows this week. I assume that's being saved for future series...

Not Me · 04-23-2004, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
I ask because to some of us the pro-intoxicants to pro-Bible flipflop is as disconcerting as any.

Jesus purportedly turned water into wine. Ingesting intoxicants is not against Christian beliefs. Every Irish priest and nun I ever met enjoyed drinking as much if not more than GWB probably ever did.

Shape Shifter · 04-23-2004, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
Jesus purportedly turned water into wine. Ingesting intoxicants is not against Christian beliefs. Every Irish priest and nun I ever met enjoyed drinking as much if not more than GWB probably ever did.

I was raised Baptist and they glossed over the whole wine thing by saying that they were really drinking diluted wine, and that only because they lacked adequate clean water supplies. They never explained why Jesus didn't just turn the water into clean water.

ltl/fb · 04-23-2004, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
Jesus purportedly turned water into wine. Ingesting intoxicants is not against Christian beliefs. Every Irish priest and nun I ever met enjoyed drinking as much if not more than GWB probably ever did.

So what you are saying is that Bush lies about the Bible. Hm. Interesting.

Hank Chinaski · 04-23-2004, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I was raised Baptist and they glossed over the whole wine thing by saying that they were really drinking diluted wine, and that only because they lacked adequate clean water supplies. They never explained why Jesus didn't just turn the water into clean water.

look I'm the most respectable of the right wing poster- i think everyone would agree- and I;ve an alcohol problem. the leties include Ty who is an absolute lush-
this is not an appropriate topic IMHO. cAN'T WE TALK ABOUT ISLAM AND HOW IT TREATS WOMEN?

ltl/fb · 04-23-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
look I'm the most respectable of the right wing poster- i think everyone would agree- and I;ve an alcohol problem. the leties include Ty who is an absolute lush-
this is not an appropriate topic IMHO. cAN'T WE TALK ABOUT ISLAM AND HOW IT TREATS WOMEN?

It's my understanding that alcoholism is relatively rare in Islamic countries and among Muslims. Perhaps you should convert.

Shape Shifter · 04-23-2004, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
look I'm the most respectable of the right wing poster- i think everyone would agree- and I;ve an alcohol problem. the leties include Ty who is an absolute lush-
this is not an appropriate topic IMHO. cAN'T WE TALK ABOUT ISLAM AND HOW IT TREATS WOMEN?

Shit, Hank, He turned the water into wine, not gin. And it was at a party. He wasn't sitting alone in a cold dark room. But I'm happy to hear you've made it to Step 1.

Hank Chinaski · 04-23-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It's my understanding that alcoholism is relatively rare in Islamic countries and among Muslims. Perhaps you should convert.

if you tell me to "jump down turn around pick a bale of cotten" then I will. If you tell me to do something else then I will. Just remember: I'm doing it because you told me to.