Making Baby Jesus Cry

[SlaveNoMore]

The self-professed "Professor" - famous for editing his own blog entries without any notation that his original words were changed - gets called to the carpet by the widow of a reporter he smeared:

link

• Cole: "Was American journalist Steve Vincent killed in Basra as part of an honor killing? He was romantically involved with his Iraqi interpreter, who was shot 4 times. If her clan thought she was shaming them by appearing to be having an affair outside wedlock with an American male, they might well have decided to end it. In Mediterranean culture, a man's honor tends to be wrought up with his ability to protect his womenfolk from seduction by strange men. Where a woman of the family sleeps around, it brings enormous shame on her father, brothers and cousins, and it is not unknown for them to kill her. These sentiments and this sort of behavior tend to be rural and to hold among the uneducated, but are not unknown in urban areas. Vincent did not know anything serious about Middle Eastern culture and was aggressive about criticizing what he could see of it on the surface, and if he was behaving in the way the Telegraph article describes, he was acting in an extremely dangerous manner."

Mr. Cole -
(I refuse to call you professor, because that would ennoble you. And please change the name of your blog to "Uninformed Comment", because that is precisely what the above paragraph is.)

I would like to refute this shameful post against a dead man who can no longer defend himself against your scurrilous accusations, a dead man who also happened to be my husband. Steven Vincent and I were together for 23 years, married for 13 of them, and I think I know him a wee bit better than you do.

For starters, Steven and Nour were not "romantically involved". If you knew anything at all about the Middle East, as you seem to think you do, then you would know that there is no physical way that he and she could have ever been alone together. Nour (who always made sure to get home before dark, so they were never together at night) could not go to his room; he could not go to her house; there was no hot-sheet motel for them to go to for a couple of hours. They met in public, they went about together in public, they parted in public. They were never alone. She would not let him touch her arm, pay her a compliment, buy her a banana on the street, hyper-aware of how such gestures might be interpreted by the misogynistic cretins who surrounded her daily. So for you brazenly claim that she was "sleeping around," when there is no earthly way you could possibly know that, suggests to me that you are quite the misogynist as well. Cheap shot, Mr. Cole, against a remarkable woman who does not in any wise deserve it.

This is not to say that Steven did not love Nour - he did. And he was quite upfront about it to me. But it was not sexual love - he loved her for her courage, her bravery, her indomitable spirit in the face of the Muslim thugs who have oppressed their women for years. To him she represented a free and democratic Iraq, and all of the hopes he had for that still-elusive creature. And he loved her for the help she gave him - endangering herself by affiliating with him because she wanted the truth to come out about what was happening in her native city of Basra and the surrounding area. Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that it is possible to love someone in a strictly platonic way, but I assure you, it can happen - even between men and women.

And yes, he was planning to to convert to Islam and marry Nour, but only to take her out of the country to England, where she had a standing job offer, set her up with the friends she had over there, divorce her, and come back to New York. He had gotten her family's permission to do so (thereby debunking the "honor killing" theory), but more importantly, he had gotten mine. He called one night to say that it had been intimated to him that Nour's life was essentially going to be worthless after he left; since he was an honorable man (a breed you might want to familiarize yourself with), he then asked what I thought he might do to help her. I told him to get her out of the country and bring her here to New York. However, the only way she could have left Iraq was with a family member or husband. Since her family had no intention of going anywhere, Steven was her only recourse, and it would have been perfectly legal for him to convert, marry her, then take her out of Iraq to give her a chance at a real life. (Now that that avenue is closed to her, I have made inquiries to the State Department about the possibility of my sponsoring her in America. Do you perhaps labor under the misapprehension I am such a spineless cuckold that I would put myself out thusly for the woman you believe my husband was traducing me with? If so, I'm guessing you don't know much about the Sicilian female temperament.)

As to your claim that "In Mediterranean culture, a man's honor tends to be wrought up with his ability to protect his womenfolk from seduction by strange men", it may perhaps have escaped your notice that Iraq does not abut, in any way, shape or form, the Mediterranean Sea. Italy is a Mediterranean culture, as are Spain, Greece, Southern France. In none of them is "honor killing" an accepted form of "protecting womanhood". As to the southerly lands like Morocco and Algeria, they are not, in the general scheme of things, considered Mediterranean cultures - they are considered Arabic, a whole different beast. For you to seemingly be unaware of this, and then to say that my husband "did not know anything serious about Middle Eastern culture" again begs the question, just where do you get off? If you cannot differentiate between Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cultures, how is it you feel qualified to pontificate so pompously?
How often have you been to the Middle East, Mr. Cole? In 2000 Steven and I spent almost a month in Iran on vacation. In 2003 we spent 10 days over Christmas in Jordan. In the last 2 years he had made not one, not two, but three trips to Iraq, and at the time of his death had about 7 months of daily living there under his belt. Can you offer comparables?

How much Arabic do you speak, Mr. Cole? Steven had been learning Arabic for the last two years, and was able to converse simply but effectively with the people he came into contact with. He had many expatriate friends in the Muslim world from whom he was always learning. As I sit here writing this at what was his desk, I can look at the literally dozens of books he devoured about Islam and the Middle East - each one thick with Post-It notes and personal observations he made in the pages - as he sought to comprehend and absorb the complexities of the culture and the religion he felt, and cared, so deeply about. If you would like a list of them, please email me back and I will be happy to send you a comprehensive accounting.

Yes, Steven was aggressive in criticizing what he saw around him and did not like. It's called courage, and it happens to be a tradition in the history of this country. Without this tradition there would have been no Revolutionary War, no Civil War, no civil rights movement, no a lot of things that America can be proud of. He had made many friends in Iraq, and was afraid for them if the religious fundamentalists were given the country to run under shari'a. You may dismiss that as naive, simplistic, foolish, but I say to you, as you sit safely in your ivory tower in Michigan with nothing threatening your comfy, tenured existence, that you should be ashamed at the depths to which you have sunk by libeling Steven and Nour. They were on the front lines, risking all, in an attempt to call attention to the growing storm threatening to overwhelm a fragile and fledgling experiment in democracy, trying to get the world to see that all was not right in Iraq. And for their efforts, Steven is dead and Nour is recuperating with three bullet wound in her back. Yes, that's right - the "honorable" men who abducted them, after binding them, holding them captive and beating them, set them free, told them to run - and then shot them both in the back. I've seen the autopsy report.

You did not know him - you did not have that honor, and you will never have the chance, thanks to the murderous goons for whom you have appointed yourself an apologist. He was a brilliant, erudite, witty, charming, kind, generous, silly, funny, decent, honorable and complex man, who loved a good cigar, Bombay Sapphire gin martinis, Marvel Silver Age comic books, Frank Sinatra, opera and grossing me out with bathroom humor. And if he was acting in a dangerous manner, he had a very good excuse - he was utterly exhausted. He had been in Basra for 3 months under incredibly stressful conditions, working every day, and towards the end enduring heat of 135 degrees, often without air conditioning, which could not have helped his mental condition or judgment. He was yearning to come home, as his emails to me made crystal clear. But on August 2nd, two days before my birthday, he made the fatal mistake of walking one block - one - from his hotel to the money exchange, rather than take a cab, and now will never come back to me. I got a bouquet of flowers from him on August 4th, which he had ordered before he died, and the card said he was sorry to miss my birthday, but the flowers would stand in his stead until he made it home. They are drying now in the kitchen, the final gift from my soulmate.

I did not see your blog until tonight. I was busy doing other things - fighting the government to get Steven's body returned from Basra days after I was told he would be sent home, planning the funeral, buying a cemetery plot, choosing the clothes to bury him in, writing the prayer card, fending off the media, dealing with his aging parents, waking and then burying him - but I could not let the calumnies you posted so freely against two total strangers go unchallenged.

You strike me as a typical professor - self-opinionated, arrogant, so sure of the rightness of your position that you won't even begin to consider someone else's. I would suggest that you ought to be ashamed of yourself for your breathtaking presumption in eviscerating Steven in death and disparaging Nour in life, but, like any typical professor, I have no doubt that you are utterly shameless.

Sincerely,

Lisa Ramaci-Vincent

Why isn't Dowd and the rest of the Lefty gang granting Ms. Ramaci-Vincent "absolute moral authority" that she deserves?

[Spanky]

Who is Juan Cole?

[SlaveNoMore]

Spanky
Who is Juan Cole?

a) Professor at Michigan

b) Favorite quote source of Josh Marshall and the folks at TAPPED.

c) Assclown

d) All the above

[Spanky]

Josh Marshall and the folks at TAPPED?

Are these people that Ty quotes?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
I am sorry that I assumed that you thought Bush was being duplicitous when he did not ad the Iraq war estimates to his budget. It is good to know that you think his handling of the Bush War expenditures was above board even though you think the total budget estimates were duplicitous.

I think there were political motivations for excluding predictable costs of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan from certain budget documents. I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it duplicitous.

People on this board make such references all the time. But I am glad you agree that Bush is a very savy person.

I have said before that Bush is not dumb, and that his political adversaries do themselves a disservice by misunderestimating him.

Actually you have that backwards. I explained in my post why it is absurd to think that Bush intentionally underestimated the deficit - it has happened quite consistently etc. Instead of addressing my points you made irrelevent points and personal attacks.

I didn't say he underestimated anything. I said that the government has released inflated projections, such that when actual numbers come in, they look good by comparison. And I don't love the personal attacks, but if you are going to condescend to everyone, that's what you'll get.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Is that the same CBO whose recent projections are being mocked on these pages?

I thought so.

No. I was referring to the executive branch's predictions, which is why I referred to the administration. And the CBO numbers I linked to were historical data, not projections. Other than that, you are exactly right and really skewered me. Touche.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
Josh Marshall and the folks at TAPPED?

Are these people that Ty quotes?

I quote Marshall and TAPPED not infrequently, because they are journalists and observe professional standards, etc. I tend not to quote Cole, or even to read him, because while he is very well informed about the Middle East, much moreso than most who have opinions about it, he seems a little erratic and too far to the left for my tastes. He tends to read a lot of Arab media, which gives him a better sense than most of us about what's actually happening in the region.

I don't think Marshall (in particular) or TAPPED (to a significant degree) rely on Cole much, and they are not as far to the left as he is. I'm sure they all look the same when you're as far out to the right as Slave is.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
and my recently re-elected senator is the universally proclaimed stupidest liberal in Congress.

Penske, I've been with you all the way. But when you exagerate like this, I start to think, maybe THEY are right about you. Everyone fucking knows that Barbara Boxer, a liberal, is the stupidest person in congress, bar none. It's not even close.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
I quote Marshall and TAPPED not infrequently, because they are journalists and observe professional standards, etc.

Which mean little in today's age - but I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment. I consider them legit blogger journalists.

I tend not to quote Cole, or even to read him

Again, why is it that I am better informed about Cole, Kos and DU than you?

... because while he is very well informed about the Middle East

Ward Churchill claims to be knowledgable about Indian affairs

... much moreso than most who have opinions about it

I prefer MEMRI or www.iraqthemodel.com, or Daniel Pipes to tell me about the Middle East

he seems a little erratic and too far to the left for my tastes. He tends to read a lot of Arab media, which gives him a better sense than most of us about what's actually happening in the region.

I dont know about that - I honestly doubt it - but the guy edits his posts repeatedly (without notation) when called on them.

I don't think Marshall (in particular) or TAPPED (to a significant degree) rely on Cole much, and they are not as far to the left as he is.

They quote him a lot.

I'm sure they all look the same when you're as far out to the right as Slave is.

Funny.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I said that the government has released inflated projections, such that when actual numbers come in, they look good by comparison.

This is true, but I'm not sure it's endemic only to this administration.

[SlaveNoMore]

sgtclub
Penske, I've been with you all the way. But when you exagerate like this, I start to think, maybe THEY are right about you. Everyone fucking knows that Barbara Boxer, a liberal, is the stupidest person in congress, bar none. It's not even close.

As a resident of CA, you should know that Barbara Lann Lee is the bottom of the barrel.

'Nuff said.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
You know that they have the internet in Iraq. WORLD. wide web. It's not I wouldn't still be here. Frankly, for all you know, I am in Iraq.

Even if I didn't know you, I would consider this unlikely. After all, think of the images this board could be treated to if you were actually there.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Again, why is it that I am better informed about Cole, Kos and DU than you?

I'm guessing it's because you read each of them more often.

That's certainly true with respect to me; I read each of those almost never, and I vacillate between wondering whether our different reading habits make you simply more of a voracious reader of the fringe stuff, or me less of a "Democrat" for not reading it in the first place.

[SlaveNoMore]

Gattigap
I'm guessing it's because you read each of them more often.

That's certainly true with respect to me; I read each of those almost never, and I vacillate between wondering whether our different reading habits make you simply more of a voracious reader of the fringe stuff, or me less of a "Democrat" for not reading it in the first place.

The former.

Although we both love the single malts, the fringe stuff is the raison d'etre for my habit.

[SlaveNoMore]

Gattigap
I'm guessing it's because you read each of them more often.

Speaking of which, I'm about to start a media campaign against the Huffington Post. They have not posted my last 6 comments (and counting) despite a rather non-confrontational tone.