Waiting for Fitzgerald

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I'd be happy with probation, but it would be nice if he had to sit in a holding cell before he was booked.

S_A_M

I confess to knowing little about the case, but I thought it was just alleged violations of campaign finance laws - or in my view, an exercise of the first amendment. Do you really want him to go to jail for THAT?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I find it irritating, though not outrageous, and I am ensaddened that this president, like others, would bend policy apparatus to political ends, but I brought it up because it related to the conversation y'all were having about the size of the budget deficit these days, and I kept talking about it only because you would not give a freaking inch and because I am as stubborn as the day is long.

"ensaddened"? I think you need to stop watching clips of Bush.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I confess to knowing little about the case, but I thought it was just alleged violations of campaign finance laws - or in my view, an exercise of the first amendment. Do you really want him to go to jail for THAT?

No, I want him to go to jail for knifing that hooker over in the 5th Ward, but I'll settle.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by baltassoc
No, I want him to go to jail for knifing that hooker over in the 5th Ward, but I'll settle.

Seriously, I'm no Delay fan, but I've yet to hear any substantive allegation against him. People just say "Tom Delay" wink wink, nod nod, and we are supposed to convict him.

The campaign finance laws are crap. Have been since Buckly. What else is he alleged to have done, other than being mean.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by sgtclub


The campaign finance laws are crap. Have been since Buckly. What else is he alleged to have done, other than being mean.

Bully for you, since the S. Ct. will be addressing them again this year.

I personally have never understood why money=speech.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

I personally have never understood why money=speech.

You just don't agree with the position. I'm quite confident you understand rationale.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I've read the indictment and agree with balt that there's not much there against DeLay in the indictment aside from a general conspriacy charge. I have no doubts that the Grand Jury was persuaded that DeLay talked at length with Colyandro and Ellis about the TRM PAC, and I suspect one or more of them (or the corporate defendants in the previous indictments) will roll over on him.

The few minutes I spent googling this (hi, F&E!) turns up speculation this is in relation to laundering corporate donations and funneling the proceeds to help elect the Republican majority in Texas in 2002 (see here). Are GJ criminal indictments in TX supposed to plead with a certain level of particularity ?

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Seriously, I'm no Delay fan, but I've yet to hear any substantive allegation against him. People just say "Tom Delay" wink wink, nod nod, and we are supposed to convict him.

The campaign finance laws are crap. Have been since Buckly. What else is he alleged to have done, other than being mean.

Kinda like Clinton and blow jobs, eh?

Oh. Right. Perjury.

Well, I guess if we're lucky, we'll find out if The Hammer told something to the grand jury about the money shifting from Sears to his PAC to the RNC that was Not True.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I confess to knowing little about the case, but I thought it was just alleged violations of campaign finance laws - or in my view, an exercise of the first amendment. Do you really want him to go to jail for THAT?

The law is that corporations may not give money to candidates in state elections. TRM PAC accepted $190,000 worth of donations from Diversified Collection Services, Inc., Sears, Roebuck and Co., Williams Companies, Inc., Cornell Companies, Inc., Bacardi U.S.A., Inc., and Questerra Corporation (all under indictment by the Travis County DA as of two years ago).

TRM PAC then turned around and wrote a check worth, coincidently, $190,000 to the RNC, who then gave money to pretty much every Republican running for office in the state of Texas.

That year, for the first time in memory, the Republicans the legislature. Shortly thereafter, they redistricted, using maps drawn by Karl Rove and Tom DeLay.

Unfortnately for the PAC, TRM PAC ran a fairly lean ship with almost no operating costs, so they couldn't claim that the corporate money went to keep the PAC going instead of to the RNC and then the political candidates. Some of the corporations had no connection to Texas at all. Coincidently, Tom DeLay was one of the most powerful men in Washington, who had the ability to make those same corporations very, very happy in their own states.

In Texas, corporations can't buy seats in government. And I do want someone to go to jail for that. Ellis and Colyandro will probably go to jail for that.

I seriously doubt that Tom DeLay will go to jail for that. But I hope he's damned uncomfortable about it.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by sgtclub
You just don't agree with the position. I'm quite confident you understand rationale.

Well, I suppose. Put more accurately, I am not persuaded by the arguments that money=speech as that term is contemplated by the first amendment.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by sgtclub
You just don't agree with the position. I'm quite confident you understand rationale.

Do corporations, in your view, have the same first amendment rights as individuals do?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Do corporations, in your view, have the same first amendment rights as individuals do?

As a matter of the constitution, no. As a matter of state law, I think to grant them such is bad policy.

Query to which I have no idea of the answer. Most states bar corporate campaign contributions. So, CEOs often personally give large amounts of money. Presumably this money is given to them by the corporation for political gifts. Why is that not also illegal?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Do corporations, in your view, have the same first amendment rights as individuals do?

I haven't thought about the intricasies, but I certainly believe they do have some 1st AM rights. If the government has the right to penalize, regulate, etc. a corporation, or take away it's property, its seems to me only fair that the corporation have the ability to express it's opposition.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Most states bar corporate campaign contributions.

Is this true? I don't think it is here. I know my firm gives contributions to candidates on both sides of the aisle.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Is this true? I don't think it is here. I know my firm gives contributions to candidates on both sides of the aisle.

Is your firm incorporated? I thought that wasn't legal (and I don't think the rules apply to LLCs, LLPs, etc.)