Quote:
Originally posted by bilmore
I've yet to see any of this progress beyond "anonymous sources say . . ." Abu Graihb? Sicko individuals, not national policy. Do some people end up getting tortured in any war? Sure. We send marginally sane people with weapons and training into situations in which we cannot supervise them. It's gonna happen. We should fight to stop it whenever we can. But the distance between what's been shown, and what you think Bush is responsible for, is vast.
In WWI, it's estimated that we summarily executed tens of thousands of German prisoners of war. I remember, as a kid, sitting by a fire and listening to the old coot who lived down by the dump talk about how his unit was so pissed after losing half its men that they took several hundred prisoners and fried them in a barn in France. I know that shit goes on all the time. I remember getting high with my friends as they came back from Nam, listening to them talk about hosing entire villages.
It sucks. We need to stop it when we can. But, as you say, that IS war.
(ETA: Gone.)
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OK. McCain and the guy from SC and the guy from VA want to pass legislation that spells out what can and can't be done to prisoners/detainees, and stuff. The W Administration is pushing hard for an exclusion from this legislation for any actions taken by the CIA in covert stuff, or something (look it up, I don't feel like it). Does this not say to you that the Administration, from a policy standpoint, is saying that they want CIA personnel to be able to do whatever they want? Or not to be constrained by anything formal, which to me, is the same thing as "do whatever they want."
ETA to add summary of exemption White House (via Cheney) requested be added to McCain's blanket legislative provision barring "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment of detainees in U.S. custody, which has been passed by the Senate three (3) times.
White House exemption summary:
- The White House initially tried to kill the anti-torture provision while it was pending in the Senate, then switched course to lobby for an exemption in cases of "clandestine counterterrorism operations conducted abroad, with respect to terrorists who are not citizens of the United States." The president would have to approve the exemption, and Defense Department personnel could not be involved. In addition, any activity would have to be consistent with the Constitution, federal law and U.S. treaty obligations, according to draft changes in the exemption the White House is seeking.
