Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Your grandmother's healthcare is nationalized, and it has been since 1965.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Do you really think the government does that better and more efficiently than the private sector could? I guess those Bay Bridge cost overruns don't count.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Maybe we could outsource Congressional lawmaking capacity. They don't seem to be very efficient lately.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Cost containment, bulk purchasing, outcomes management. A larger patient population spreads the risk AND larger data points provide for greater opportunities for evidenced based medicine and epidemeologcial studies. Centralized medical records that are easier to manage and locate and link back to community clinics for follow up care.

Sidd (and club) this article talks about the Annals of Internal Medicine article as well as the VA healthcare system in general..

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Lots of things. A non-exclusive list: I was much happier with my electric service when I lived in a town that had a municipal power authority provide the juice. Ambulance service here is better than it was when the city contracted with private contractors. Real cops are better than rent-a-cops. The Fed seems to be doing a better job of preventing financial collapse than Mister Morgan did (but it was nice of him to loan us the gold when he did). The FDA seems a lot better at making food safe than the invisible hand did (see The Jungle). I also kinda like Central Park better than Grammercy Park.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

And this article has apparently replaced the one about Beckham's future career plans on Yahoo headlines. It's about the equally sexy topic of heath insurance pooling.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Oooh baby, you know how to turn me on...

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Yes, I do. The Federal Interstate Highway system is the single most important economic development initiative in the history of mankind. Private firms have been allowed to build roads for decades. You want to identify a system they've built that comes close?

Yes, the Bay Bridge cost overruns "count." (Again, not a federal program.) But does that mean that the private sector is better than government? Does Enron count? Global Crossing? Arthur Andersen? Shell Oil? The S&Ls? Shall I go on?

You don't like the highway system as an example? How about eradicating smallpox? (not just government -- but international institutions -- your favorite!)

Or how about providing a basic education to nearly every American? Yes, the public schools have severe problems. But the fiercest, most anti-government enemies of the public schools seem to have only one solution: Let's give government money to private schools! Hardly an indication that any of these people think that the private sector can do "better."

Fundamentalist Christianity, The Religion of Peace and Understanding
 

"[Zealot Wingnut Pat] Robertson, who launched a brief presidential bid in 1988, said that if he were president he would not appoint Muslims to serve in his Cabinet and that he was not in favor of Muslims serving as judges.

'They have said in the Koran there's a war against all the infidels,' he said. 'Do you want somebody like that sitting as a judge? I wouldn't.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...egoodpresident

I thought it was the gays, abortionists, and cultural relativists who caused 9/11. What's the problem with Muslims?

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

I will say that the state of Florida should never be entrusted with the care of 13 year old girls.

Fucking fucking fucks.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Well, if we're talking about a Republican government, that's a different issue.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

If people really cared about not getting smallpox, they would have paid for the vaccination.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Have I ranted about this one here?
Via The Poor Man

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

But if you put a private company in charge of that, I guarantee it would do a better job.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

What is there to power service? You flip a switch and the light comes on. What is there to do better, unless you mean cheaper, in which case, I would ask whether it was subsidized.

Real cops are better than rent a cops, but if privatized (which, for other reasons, is probably not a good idea) I bet it would be done for less money.

I'm not sure what you mean by preventing financial collapse.

ON the FDA, again, give a private entity this oversight ability, and I'm confident you would be as happy with the results. See NYSE/Nasdaq.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

You saw the part where the VA beat out Kaiser and the Blues in quality, right?

ETA: I can't think of a single privately owned hospital that I would go to over a public or not-for-profit hosptial. And I know a little bit about hospitals.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I agree that there are programs to which tax money should be spent. We can argue about what they are and how much. My point is on the execution side.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Is my sarcasm alarm not working?

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

If you put a private company in charge of that, I guarantee they will put the stockholders' interest ahead of the patients'.

http://www.phillipsandcohen.com/CM/N...ec_18_2002.asp

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

And that was my point about your grandmother. Do you know at all how Medicare works?

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Wasn't that limited to specific items?

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

A little, though not as much as you. What I do know is that there are inherent inefficiencies with managing a program that large, and these get magnified when the government is the manager.

Where's Hank?
 

If people are taking over our school system that want to teach the world is flat then yes. It is funny you say that, because there are fundamentalists that think the earth is flat (because the bible implies that it is) and there are people who think that the sun revolves around the earth (as is implied in the Bible). The Creationist position is just as absurd as these two other propositions.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

The Annals of Internal Medicine study was with regard to diabetes care. The New England Journal of Medicine (pinko commies, I know...) study was with regard to quality in general. The National Committee for Quality Assurance looks at quality in general.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Right, which is why there are fiscal intermediaries scattered across the country in the Medicare system. Trail Blazer here in Texas, a private company, is who you talk to about Medicare issues, not CMS in Baltimore.

Where's Hank?
 

If this is so important, why are these viewpoints tolerated in your party? How much are those votes worth?

Where's Hank?
 

are you proposing proof of education to receive a ballot, like a poll test?

as Kramer would say...DEAL!

Where's Hank?
 

Two hundred years before Christ, Eratosthenes deduced the diameter of the earth from some simple geometric measurements. It amazes me that some people believe God gave us brains so that we could refuse to use them.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

No, I meant better service. Sometimes flipping a switch doesn't make the lights come on. Ice storms knock down the lines. Sometimes a transformer blows. A construction crew has been known to be a bit too careless with the backhoe.

In my experience, the municipal owened utility provided better service. Less power losses. More responsive customer service agents answering the phone.

Prisons are privatized in some places. I don't think that it has worked out too well.

Since the Fed was created, we've had one doozy collapse in 1929, but nothing else was close. Before the Fed was created, and private bankers essentially controlled the circulation of money, there seemed to be a "Panic" every few years. I'm too lazy to google them, but I would bet that between the end of the Civil War and the creation of the Fed, there were probably a dozen or so.

The NYSE sure did a bang-up job in the 1920s, didn't it? Google "Richard Whitney" or "Pecora Hearings." The reason that self-regulation works well now is not that the NYSE and NASD are "private entities." Heck, I'd even argue that they aren't even private anymore, given that their rules were approved by the SEC. No, the reason that self-regulation works is because the muscle of the SEC sits behind the NASD and NYSE. Kind of like how the muscle of the Roman legions backed up King Herod.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

I know you said you would not pick a private hospital over a public one, but if you had a choice between Los Angeles County and Stanford hospital, I am pretty sure you would pick Stanford. I have been to both of these a few times and there really is no comparison.

In response to Sidd, I had heard that health care was a problem but I thought the problem was uninsured middle class people. All the health care plans I had heard of used the private system as much as possible and required company's to provide health insurance to their employees. Even Hillary's health care plan would not solve the competitiveness problem because it mostly relies on companys providing health insurance. I had never heard the argument that in order to make the US more competitive the Government should provide for everyones health care. What I also don't understand, if this is such a problem, why the US Chamber of commerce does not lobby for a national health care system so their members don't have to provide health insurance.

Where's Hank?
 

Considering that half the US population does not believe in evolution, these votes are worth a lot. Just ask Al Gore who would not critisize the Kansas school board for its stance on creationism.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

You clearly are not thinking this through. Private utilities keep their eyes on the bottom line. They will provide power where it makes economic sense to do so and will not run expensive lines to out of the way places where it would not be profitable for them to do so. Hello darkness for the Red States, goodbye FoxNews. It's a win, win!

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Depends on what I was going for. If I were in a trauma situation, I'd go to Ben Taub (county hospital) over any other hosptial in Houston.

My understanding is that the chairman of GM has been quietly polling other companies about about healthcare. He seems to think that the recent troubles there are directly related to healthcare costs. I know quite a few Democrats who will run next term on healthcare aimed at small business people who cannot afford health insurance for the workforce any more.

Problem politically is the money involved. The second anyone opens their mouth on healthcare, all of the insurance companies and (for profit) hosptials start contributing to campaigns to get the person to shut up about it.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

You should reread what I said. I am opposed to a national health care system. All I said was that if there was going to be additional governmental involvement in an effort to control skyrocketing costs, the analysis applied should be a cost-benefit one akin to what Oregon is trying to do, not whatever fucked-up approach would actually be pushed or applied.

Where's Hank?
 

Cite, please. And your use of the phrase "believe in" is telling in that it betrays your party's confusion over issues of faith and science.

Not only do I dispute your numbers, but I question whether those "beliefs" on evolution are genuinely held. Seems to me the creationism folk are also against birth control and sex education. Could it be that they're afraid of getting Darwined out of existence?

His lack of leadership ability (and the Florida debacle and a few SC justices) cost him the presidency. He should have condemned Kansas, like every responsible, educated adult should.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

Aren't you proving my point then?

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

2. The Oregon plan was one of the most innovative and honest plans out there. It acknowledged limited resources for a very large population and did a good job of allocating those resources accross the entire population, instead of deciding that half the population should go without healthcare just so we're not accused of "rationing."

Fuck the first Bush administration for denying the Medicaid waiver on that one.

Also, there needs to be a shitload more outcomes research in this country. It's ridiculous how conventional wisdom, without any research to back it up, becomes protocol in the delivery of healthcare.

Where's Hank?
 

Besides subjecting all you poor unsuspecting victims to my ridiculous diatribes and harangues, I spend a large portion of my time fighting the Christian Conservatives. Even here in california they are a large and well organized bunch. And you would not believe how ignorant these people can be.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

No. I'm trying to show you that government health care doesn't necessarily mean that private companies are kept out of the system.

I don't think that many Medicare beneficiaries are upset with Medicare, on the quality side or the administrative side. I know that the biggest issues on the provider side are the regulatory burdens (anti-kickback, documentation, some non-coverage issues, Stark, HIPAA, EMTALA) and the reimbursement levels, though it is NOT an inefficient system. Submit a clean claim to Medicare, and you're going to be paid. I can't think of another insurance company that does that. Fuck, most states had to pass laws to force insurance companies to pay claims within 45 days. They didn't do that because Medicare was behind.

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids
 

So is mine. Identify a private enterprise that operates with administrative costs as low as Social Security.

Cost overruns, inefficiency, and mismanagement are hardly limited to the public sector. The Boeing Dreamliner? The NEXT computer? Webvan? pets.com? Brobeck? Worldcom?