But he does it with a fairly valid and dry statistical analysis, which is an impressive achievement in and of itself.

I, for one, am too sleepy to deal with this. Y'all may commence the celebrations of that immediately.

lies, damn lies, statistics.

Nice feeding of the flames with "fairly valid." No, I didn't read the clip, but it didn't seem long enough to have explained its methods enough to verify validity.

It's based on his new book. I'm sure there is enough in there for you to verify validity (or not).

I can only say "fairly valid" - and maybe I should have said "seemingly valid" instead - because I ain't a statistician. But, read it. It does seem to make some sense. It doesn't come off as some race-baiting flame at all. Sowell's never been that type. He's more a Cosby-esque figure.

Come to think of it, Cosby kind of talks funny.

Yes. We are, at base, a simple people. That it has taken so long for this illustrious Mr. Sowell to uncover our flaws and our colorful customs that obscure our unavoidable mediocrity, reveals almost as much about the the examiner than about the examined.

Wm. Faulkner

Fat cosby or thin cosby? Like the one who rails against "aks" and "you know what I'm saying this and you know what I'm saying that" and generally draws the ire of the NAACP for not following the party line that the Man is to blame for everything?

Bush Taps DeLay
 

In District 22 news, Richard Morrison dropped out of the race yesterday citing money problems and his wife's pregnancy with a fifth kid. Money is on former congressman and victim of redistricting Nick Lampson to pick up the torch, though Councilman Gordon Quan is also being discussed.

Were I to pull out the racism card so soon, I would likely do it anon also. We are, at base, cowardly people, aren't we?

All of those, yeah. But, is that the fat or the thin one?

the thin one did "bigot" or whatever that film was: "There's another bigot out there just like me. I don't care for him much."

Bush Taps DeLay
 

Effective at substantially reducing severe poverty among the elderly. The longer-term demographic problems can be addressed by relatively minor adjustments to the benefit rates and retirement ages, as they were in the 1980s.

I don't think the elderly have been "lulled into complacency," and the statistics on the number of elderly who continue to work would seem to suggest that I'm right. I don't think many people relish the idea of having to rely on the safety net.

Bush Taps DeLay
 

That was an inside joke for Spanky. It was akin to Not Me saying that Rs should give money to Nader for the Prez campaign.

You misunderstand, my flightless friend. From the WSJ's august pages, the author's condemnations extend to both Southern whites and blacks, and do not necessarily attribute the culture of the former to the trials and tribulations of the latter.

My response, which I attempted to make exceedingly brief, is to the author's conflation of observations and statistics about Southern culture and its inhabitants with a conclusion that this state of affairs causes lagging achievement among blacks.

What are we to make of this? The author's description of Southern culture (for both races) as one prone to "higher levels of violence and sexual promiscuity" is certainly an interesting one, as is his rather wry observation that our culture has its "own way of talking, not only in the pronunciation of particular words but also in a loud, dramatic style of oratory with vivid imagery, repetitive phrases and repetitive cadences." How "fairly valid and dry," indeed.

His thesis that whites' and blacks' relative rates of economic success be tethered to their success in escaping from the purgatory of Southern culture is an interesting one, but I am far from convinced that the connection is more than a correlation, and in the meantime I take umbrage at the author's rather dismal characterizations, as applied to both groups.

You, in the meantime, appear convinced that I am "pulling out the race card," and apparently see no connection between a post commenting on Southern culture and a moniker dedicated to a Southern author. The "coward" comment was added, presumably, just for kicks. Your assessments of the intentions and meanings of those who post here remains unrivaled.

Your patella tendon is working as well as ever. You would do well to question what triggered it here.

Sincerely,
Wm. Faulkner

Bush Taps DeLay
 

This is not necessarily true, and depends on predictions about economic performance in the interim.

Which is not to say that we shouldn't manage the program in a prudent way. But a lot of people are pretending it's all doomed because they want to get rid of it for other reasons.

Bush Taps DeLay
 

I know. See, there is room for humor.

Race is a cultural construct.

I could've sworn there were poor black people living in northern cities for the past, oh, 200 years. But I guess that was my imagination.


I'm hoping that Gatti will weigh in on this as our resident sort-of-Southerner. But he's probably busy fucking his cousin.

Read the op-ed. He makes teh point (I think mostly, but not entirely, valid) that many black northerners emigrated from the south in the 19th century to escape slavery, and brought with them the culture of Gatti.

I've often told Gatti, you can take the pig-fucker out of the south, but you can't take the south out of the pig fucker.

To which he usually responds, Haw, thass a fine-looking hog over there.

Sidd, those who emigrated to other parts of America and remain poor undoubtedly have exported the relevant aspects of Southern culture. Sure, they may not speak the same, but clearly the retardation of Northern blacks' economic success is because of the inherent dependency of Southern culture. Get it?

Beyond its other flaws, the problem with this argument is that "Southern culture" is completely malleable. If its contours can be defined as the author wishes, I'm surprised that he stopped with handing it the yoke of economic repression for blacks and undereducated whites, and didn't extend it to the regrettable quality of today's prime-time programming.

Gattigap

You didn't really read it, did you?

Nah, I think it's a pretty good theory. The South is fundamentally different, and southern culture permeated black people, completely replacing their native culture and making them, well, dumb and prone to be unsuccessful.


It's The Belle Curve.

Yeah, I did.

Yes, but only the parts he didn't splatter with BBQ sauce.

(I was trying to be charitable.)

Had you not approached me with a request for lessons in technique, this recounting would be more credible.

Quick question: a friend lives in Dunedin New Zealand- beautiful culturally advanced etc.

He wants to spend time in the States and the only way to get extended stay visa is to teach. apparently some areas offer programs- problem is it looks like it mostly Mayberry where they need them. So he's telling me chances are best for him to get a job in South Carolina.

Q1- should I recommend not living in backwoods SC?
Q2- he said Va. and NC are also possible- I was going to suggest that he fight for those if for no other reason than he'll be closer to cities. Agree?
Q3- if he does go do you have any hints on how to maximize the promiscuity while minimizing the violence?

Yeah. And I was trying to avoid a more protracted discussion in which I would have to take the time to point out that

• Yes, I read the part mentioning the study about black Harvard alumni,
• The fragment of the first sentence was a sarcastic leadup to my main point*, which remains that
• The answer to black American economic challenges is multifaceted one, and seizing on "culture" as one's argued primary cause is a poor choice. It's an ephemeral concept, and easily manipulable to justify any number of conclusions.

(Clearly, I failed in this.)

Gattigap.



* And I suspect you know this, yet took the opportunity to suggest several times that I'm either inattentive or stupid. Nice. Tuesday, the new Friday.

Wait, let's stop there. Was your friend an extra on the LOTR movies? If an elf, then SC/NC/Va will work fine. If an orc, then I gotta recommend the Detroit suburbs. Blending into one's environment is critical.

You use big words for a pig-fucker.

I was able to avoid the violence to obtain an acceptable education, but obviously promiscuity was a more significant problem for me.

As long as we're clear on this.


Not if you disregard the content of the culture in your construct, and simply make an analysis of the differing outcomes for different groups. You're so busy running away from the topic, though, that I think you miss that. When you say things like " . . . but clearly the retardation of Northern blacks' economic success is because of the inherent dependency of Southern culture . . ." as a response to what Sowell wrote, it makes it less likely that serious consideration will be given to the rest. No, I'm not calling you dumb - I'm mostly calling myself frustrated, as, like any time someone tries to deal with this subject, it gets met with thinly veiled sarcasm by people who are way invested of other explanations.

Can you blame him? His cousin's hot, man.

But that's just the point -- the "content of the culture" is so variable and so malleable that tying a complex social phenomenon to that culture makes little sense.



Wow. Guess we ran out of room for humor already.


But seriously, folks. I'm willing to embrace the view that Southern culture makes people dumb. Can someone post the map of red and blue states for me?

You mean his cousin Big Jethro? These boards are making you way more cosmopolitan.

Get him the map with the colors broken down by county. That way we can correct for where the ex-southern people are.

The very notion of leaving New Zealand to go to any U.S. backwater is completely incomprehensible to me.

Men don't mess around with other men.