Form 180?
 

I'm curious. O'Neil strikes me as a fairly reasonable guy, and he did have virtually every one of Kerry's Nam superiors lined up and saying Kerry was unfit - and giving reasons based on specific events in VN. (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, and assuning you read the interview, and didn't do the reflexive "oh, the Swift Boat Jerks" thing.)

Plus, the stuff they claimed about Kerry ended up about 1/2 proven, 1/4 contested in differing characterizations, and 1/4 contested with factual assertions, all of which leaves me unable to do what Dems seem to have done, which is to completely ignore and demonize them.

Do you just totally disbelieve all of those people on faith - especially all of those in that group of his commanders - and then chuckle patronizingly when someone mentions them - or do you have some unshared info that allows you to make a reasoned judgment that they are bad, or wrong, or . . . ?

New Rankings In!!
 

For someone as old as you are, you've lost a lot of perspective.

Back in the day, a sailor would come into port after a year at sea hunting whales and shit, and if it was a successful hunt, they'd be downright rich by the days standards. Two or three successful hunts and you were set for life.

They'd also have had no sex (except to the extent a guy name Quequeeq lent them his pole) in over a year.

So they had lots of money, but it was not just spending money, but the way they spent it. A coked up i-banker just isn't going to spend like a drunken sailor.

Clinton would have known how to spend like a drunken sailor, though he never did. Bush hasn't spent like a drunken sailor since his coke days, and even then I have trouble seeing wild-eyed doped up George throwing hundreds at loose women to do unusual things. Let's face it, we haven't seen a president who could and did really spend like a drunken sailor since JFK.

How'd you get so Fly?
 

Fishing with bait is wimpy.

Form 180?
 

Cite, please.

Then and only then. Yeah, right.

Cite, please.

Cite, please. My recollection is that is was the lack of documentation that raised doubts.

And O'Neill's been making statements about it since 1971. What a hack.

Wow
 

The secret admin powers lead me to think that description holds for everyone who posts here regularly.

New Rankings In!!
 

I have to bow to your better knowledge of the sea. I suppose we all know the most about our own eras.

So, if anyone has any questions about the kon-Tiki . . .

Form 180?
 

That was the TAE interviewer.

That was O'Neil


That was O'Neil again.


Well, you've convinced me. College debate team?

Form 180?
 

So the media ignored this whole thing? I don't think so. We all seem to know about it.

Yes, and I want a specific cite, cause I think he's making this up. If what he says is true, why isn't he naming names? Is he afraid he'll be Fostered?


Right. And I want to know the basis for his assertion.


Kerry lost the election, thank in no small part to R stooges like O'Neill. The horse is dead, Mikolka. You can stop beating it now.

Form 180?
 

How did the worm taste?

Hey, Bilmore, tell us about what Saddam was going to do with all those WMD again?

Form 180?
 

Problem is, this pretty much sums up the "substantive" responses to the SBV's during the election. Lots of reporters and anchors and bloggers and dems yelling "effin liars!", and not talking about what they said. I mean, look at the substantive responses here. The best so far is "cite!", after nine months of cites.

Form 180?
 

44 days ago, John Kerry promised, on national TV [Hardball, for those that care], to sign form SF-180 and release his military records.

He has yet to do so. And the blogs are keeping track.

Form 180?
 

I don't have the time today to give your post the Fisking it deserves. The Swift Boat Vets proved long ago that they were more interested in getting Kerry than in getting it right. They have zero credibility, like the stopped clock that's right twice a day (mine just blinks, but whatever). O'Neill and the vets most responsible for decades of trying to assassinate Kerry's character are well and truly bothered by his public opposition to the war, for reasons that most of the rest of the country long ago worked past. O'Neill suggests this in that interview, but has largely opted to slime Kerry on other questions instead of taking him on the real issue, knowing that his sound lost that round in the 1970s. Like the libertarians who can't get over the New Deal, O'Neill is still fighting the War. It would have been nice to think that the silver lining to November's election results would be that we don't have to listen to this crap anymore, because it is nauseating on so many levels, but I guess that's too much to ask for.

Form 180?
 

It would have been shorter to just type "effin' liars!"

Again, absolutely no response to what was said. All those commanders were just lying? He WAS in Cambodia?

His 180 would go far in disproving some of the stuff, and he's promised to release it, so . . .

Wow
 

2.

Form 180?
 

Who fucking cares? I mean, really? It's not like anyone on this board is the charter member of the John Kerry Fan Club.

Form 180?
 

Kerry lost the election, thanks in no part because (a) he is an arrogant, pompous windbag, (b) he is a career do-nothing politician, (c) he lied about his Vietnam and Cambodian service, (d) he made a mockery of the US Military after he returned, (e) he called his fellow soldiers/sailors "War Criminals" and (f) represents a party that is slowly becoming extinct on the national level.

Form 180?
 

Who is the reporter O'Neill mentioned, the one that said they wouldn't publish it because it would help Bush? Where is the evidence that NYT and WaPo decided not to go with the story despite it being "well documented"? And where is the evidence of a media conspiracy to silence the SBVs? If there was one, it was mighty damned incompetent, because I heard and read and saw this story everywhere. Maybe you missed it when you were crawling under rocks with O'Neill.

Form 180?
 

He's gonna run again. You know it.

Frankly, as I think of this, it's sort of dumb for a Repub to talk about this now. We should save it for when he gets the next nomination, and then pull it back out. If we do it too much too early, you'all'll pick Hilary, and then we're toast.

Form 180?
 

Now I know how the Red Sox fans feel.

Form 180?
 

You would have liked that, wouldn't you.

We got deep into those details last fall. Perhaps you were on hiatus or something. Go back and read the archives here. Back then, I knew where to find supporting materials because it was current. Right now, it would take more time than I have.

No, most of those commanders were happy to lend their name to an attack on Kerry, but were not suggesting that they had personal knowledge of O'Neill's attacks.

I have spent so much time on the Cambodia thing here. More than I should, given how skeezy these issues are. Go back and read the archives.

As I said to Slave, who fucking cares? Is it just a pleasant diversion from the Social Security and bankruptcy spectacles?

Form 180?
 

Look to your timeline. The main media blew them off, for quite some time. It was only after the newer version of info outlets started pushing it that the main media eventually HAD to cover it. And even then, they started right in on the "it's all lies", and ended up looking very silly in the process.

Form 180?
 

Next time around, I'm predicting he has Joementum.

Ha.

Form 180?
 

Well, a guy can dream, can't he?

Form 180?
 

What, because two N.E. dems are better than one?

Form 180?
 

Yes. Too bad he couldn't pretend to be a Texas rancher and a man of people.

Had he spent much of his career losing other people's money in the oil business, he would have that much stronger a candidate?

I don't think that cost him any votes, but the negative attacks about it surely did.

That's a load of crap. And bilmore is old enough to still be refighting the Vietnam War, but you are too young for it.

Some of them were, which was his point.

As Apu said, The South shall come again.

Goddamn draft dodging druggie
 

Why is no one running with the Bush drug admission, anyways?

The media dropped that one pretty damn quickly.

Goddamn draft dodging druggie.

And we have been sources for each word of the preceding sentance than the Swifties have for any of their charges.

Form 180?
 

I was trying to say that Kerry will do about as well in the next presidential election as Lieberman did the last time around.

As I said many, many months ago, and more recently, Senators are not nearly the presidential candidates they think they are.

Hopefully Hillary will prove that sooner rather than later.

Form 180?
 

Horseshit. You wanna talk about bias, the fact that most americans have no clue that Kerry hid those records, while MSM went out of its way to concoct anti-bush documents shows the pernious extent of the problem.

Form 180?
 

the majority of Hank posts make her nips get hard.

Form 180?
 

I think that Slate did a pretty good job of rebutting the Swifties' allegations. I'll check their archives in a second.

Form 180?
 

why would you want her to prove it ever? is her mere presence a drag on the dems?

Goddamn draft dodging druggie
 

Did you crib this from the "about the author" section of Bill Clinton's book?

I have no idea what this means, but I do know that Dan Rather and Mary Mapes are now playing golf.

Form 180?
 

Figures. They're part of the media conspiracy and this just shows the pernious extent of the problem.

Goddamn draft dodging druggie
 

'Cuz drugs is fun?

Form 180?
 

I meant that if she's going to run -- and I'd rather she didn't -- I hope she loses in the primaries, rather than the general election.

Goddamn draft dodging druggie
 

But not together.

Form 180?
 

I'll lay five bucks now that she's our next prez.

Form 180?
 

She won't lay any guys. Almost cost hubby the big job.

Form 180?
 

You're on. I bet you five dollars that she is not our next president.

Form 180?
 

I hope I lose. I have a number of such bets. I just figure it's a win/win for me. If I place enough of these, the bucks might help ameliorate the pain.