I have been in meetings for about seven days now about taking out Delay and four other incumbant Republicans. The project is is called revolt of the elders and is being headed by Pete McCloskey (former Congressman from my area and a former head of the California Republican League).


http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3136907

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/15/politics/15delay.html

http://www.poe-news.com/features.php?feat=44660

We have found candidates to run against Delay and Doolittle and are looking for a few more. I am about to become very unpopular in the Republican party. I guess, Delay plays hardball, so there will be an investigation of my life. Won't be the first. Some of you may be getting mysterious phone calls.

Ever since DeLay heard that Al Gore invented the internet, he's assumed it was unpatriotic to use it.

Is Fjetland your guy? He's run against DeLay before. He's never done particularly well.

Here's an interview with him over at Off the Kuff when he ran last year as an independent.

You know, if you look at the actual list of what he's done, it's not that bad - nothing more than you see in so many long-term pols of both stripes. Is his main drawback just that the D's hate him with such an ungodly passion that it's worthwhile to jettison him? Is losing such an effective whip a reasonable price to pay for what sort of looks like nothing more than giving up so things can move on?

The internet comment was stoopid. The trips were nothing more than what many others have done. The ethics accusations could be read either way, from what I can see, and the much-reviled change of ethics rules only made them mirror the Dem rules, if I remember correctly. Frankly, I'm not sure where the beef is here.

(ETA - I may well have these wrong - I've paid very little attention to the late chapters of Delay.)

My guess is that the biggest scandal that will kill him will the the Indian casino lobbying deal. Someone's going to end up rolling over on him. TRMPAC is the second biggest, since someone is going to go to jail over that and pretty much every single Republican in the state of Texas is involved in some way with that PAC.

I could give a shit about the trips and I'm actually a little sympathetic to the family payments. Professional spouses do not get nearly enough the credit for what they do. Also, I don't think that's a can of worms ANYONE wants to open. I foresee another one of those deals where half of Congress is having to pay back.

I'm pissed off as hell over the redistricting.

I'm pissed off as hell over the Terri Schiavo matter.

I'm pissed off as hell over comments about the judiciary.

The above three, I acknowledge, are partisan/personal reactions, though I know a LOT of Republicans who are pissed off about the middle one.

The thing about DeLay is, though, that his interaction with lobbyists and other money people is how he derives his power, so the ethics stuff regarding trips and coercing people to vote a certian way or else their son won't get support is important.

His primary problem is that - on the national PR stage - he is a schmoe.

To the people that matter, he is a very effective leader - and it appears his constituents aren't going to toss him anytime soon.

If you look at the notable Republicans that openly speak against him (e.g. Newt Gingrich), they all have a personal axe to grind. Otherwise, they all stand in line.

But for Spanky and other Blue State GOPers [like myself], his needless and constant sound bites make our party much, much harder for moderates or Reagan Democrats to swallow.

But . . .

Wasn't the redistricting essentially an unfair Dem result, followed by an unfair Rep result? Granted, it was out of time when Delay accomplished his, but both sides gleefully went after an essentially undemocratic result that favored themselves - Delay et al just violated one procedural rule doing his. I see the Tex redistricting as a bunch of coniving assholes sticking it to each other serially, with equal lack of morality.

Aren't you as mad as the anti-abortion people as at Delay on Schiavo? Both issues involve a conflict of very basic, foundational moral beliefs, and so I'm not surprised you're outraged, but I think what you're outraged at is not what you think. I think it's such a basic belief to people that his comments about the judges didn't surprise me. In his mind (note that phrase, please), they're murderers.

And (finally), isn't trading votes for votes what our system is built on? Isn't that what the "son" chapter involved?

What do we gain by bringing in all of those Reagan Dems or moderate R's if we lose Delay's influence? I think you discount his importance too lightly. We'd be better off hiring an aide to follow him with a Taser, zapping his balls whenever he starts talking to reporters.

Every time he opens his mouth more Republicans drop their registration. The former President of the California Republican League (before me) resigned and switched parties after Delay, on ABC This Week, said that "why does the Columbine massacre surprise anyone when we teach are children that instead of being descendants from Adam, that we crawled out of some primordial ooze."

I am betting a lot of time and money on that they will.

You are right about that. The Democrats stuck it to us in California. And now that the Governator is suggesting that some non-partisan group draw the lines, the Dems are screaming bloody murder.

0

80% of the voters thought the Federal Government should stay out. Not 60, not 70 but 80%. He needs to just shut up.

And (finally), isn't trading votes for votes what our system is built on? Isn't that what the "son" chapter involved?

What has he gotten through? Anything that counts. Tax Reform? Social Security? No - that is the tough stuff. All he has done is gotten legislation through that has exploded the budget. He didn't stop the farm bill and railroaded the Medicare drug thing through. Hell the guy is an economic liberal.

I don't know and I don't care. Like I said, partisan and personal. I hate Tom DeLay and I've hated Tom DeLay long before it was fashionable to do so. I said that the issues that are going to sink him are the gaming scandals and TFARMPAC. It's up to ya'll to decide what you're gonna do with him.

Slave, he was polling at 45 percent in his district three weeks ago. I don't think his constituancy is too happy with him right now.

An awful lot of people on both sides of the aisle voted for that dumb bill. A bunch more didn't even show up, scared how a vote either way would look later. How much of this now is just looking for a way to stick Delay with that price tag alone? It's not a problem - we didn't do anything wrong - look, we canned Delay for it!

(ETA - RT's take on him is at least honest. She's from there, she's a Dem, she hates him, and I have to admit he's not a loveable guy. But if the R's turn on him at this juncture, it just seems to me to be nothing more than a very public showing of a loss of balls.)

Pete McCloskey
 

BTW: Pete McCloskey was the guy who derailed Pat Robertson's Presidential campaign. Robertson was claiming that he had seen combat in Korea. McCloskey was in the same Regiment, and he remembered that on the boat ride to Korea, Robertson was bragging that his father, who was a US Senator, was going to get him out of combat. Sure enough, Robertson spent his tour as the liquor officer behind enemy lines. McCloskey disclosed this, and then Pat Robertson sued him. They interviewed the other guys on the boat and they all agreed with McCloskey's story. Robertson dropped the suit. McCloskey, by the way, received two silver stars and the Navy Cross in Korea. Robertson pulled out of the race right after he withdrew his law suit.

I wouldn't be surprised if Republican angst over DeLay is a byproduct of realization that in getting all those religious wacakdoos to vote Republican, you have to throw them rather unpalatable bones every now and then.

Republicans have gotten by for four 1/4 years without having to do much for the religious right except the partial birth abortion bill (which would be settled law if they hadn't deliberately left out the health of the mother language to force the issue into court for a long drawn out battle).

This fight was bound to happen sooner or later. Goodhair v. KBH (v. Keaton-McClellan-Rylander-Strayhorn?) is just one incarnation. Ya'll have a lot of people in your camp that can't stand each other.

RTs may hate him, but he is the best friend the Democrat party has ever had. They needed a replacement for Jesse Helmes and they got one in Delay. Not a Democrat fundraising letter goes out without a quote from Delay. The Democrats could not pay him enough for the help he gives them in raising money and influencing swing voters. If he would just shut up, and do his whip stuff behind the scenes, it my be OK. But he has done to much damage. He needs to go or he may lose the Congress that Gingrich worked so hard to take.

You're missing the pattern. Gingrich ended up demonized and vilified after being so effective, for "transgressions" equally as weighty, but, in reality, because he just pissed off the Dems in his accomplishments. We jettisoned him because of that. Now, history repeats. It does no good to mourn the loss of a Gingrich as you boot a Delay. Each time we get an effective ramrod, a role that requires nerve and arrogance, we chicken out and fire him because the Dems cry out that he has nerve and arrogance. There's no election coming up, Delay has 45% even after the biggest MSM campaign since November, and I'd predict he'd win by his usual margin when the time comes. I don't care what the score is now, months after the last election - and I'm not too concerned that Kerry thinks Delay is mean.

strategic bombing
 

Yes. And for that reason I think the morality of nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki can be -- at the least -- fairly questioned.

Did your Contracts casebook not contain cases from the UK? Mine did.

Maybe you never looked at that roll of papyrus.

Did your ConLaw casebook speak of how French magisterial rulings are considered primary controlling authority supporting sweeping changes in legal direction?

Mine didn't.

But Kennedy didn't look at foreign precedents as "controlling authority" for anything. If he thought that, we'd all agree that he could be impeached.

I am not missing any pattern. And I am not mourning the loss of Gingrich. Delay is totally different from Gingrich. I am trying to get Republicans elected in this state and he is my biggest problem. Not the Dems, not the Unions, but Delays mouth. He is not the speaker. He doesn't need to be in the limelight to do his job. Delay runs to the limelight like a moth to flame and he sucks at it. From a practical political standpoint his negatives outweigh his positives. You may get your rocks off when you hear him, but that doesn't help the party. The man is a liability. And its people like you that just can't see how he helps the Democrats that are going to cost us the Congress.

Delay: Reconstructed Sothern Dem
 

You say Delay's an economic liberal as if it's news. What kind of Southerners did you think the Republicans recruited from the democrats post-LBJ? Libertarians?

The best oponnent to have in politics is a wounded opponent. If you kill your oppenent, then you have to face a new stronger one. So you wound but don't kill. The smart party kills their own wounded and replaces them with someone strong. That is just politics 101. This is not a debating club where you get oratory point for good speeches. It is congressional inside politics.

Foreign law should be irrelevant to US law. Period. It shouldn't be used to support any consitutional theory to any degree whatsoever. In fact, if the Frenchies come out one way, doing the exact opposite is probably a good idea.

Not responsive to this post alone, but what the hay. From where I'm sitting, what is remarkable about DeLay is that he is so corrupt. The man seems to operate under no principle other than the pursuit of power, and he's willing to push the envelope to get it. The K Street Project is the sort of thing that we can thank DeLay for. Finding ways to get illegal corporate money to Texas legislators to buy redistricting. That sort of thing. When he needed to divert attention from his ethical troubles, he sided with the cultural conservatives on the Schiavo thing, but that was totally calculated, IMHO.

DeLay's ruthlessness and corruption is what makes the GOP control of the House of Representatives work the way it does. Get rid of him, and you will either need to replace him with someone equally corrupt, or you will lose some measure of lockstep control. Which wouldn't be a bad thing for the country, but I digress.

strategic bombing
 

No.

Well said, bilmore. I for one am encouraged to see elements of the GOP rally 'round its man. Next step - group photo. Some pics of DeLay with each and every Republican in Congress will be golden in sending those Dems to defeat in '06 and '08.

Hell, I'll buy the film.

Spanky,

I hear ya. But before y'all toss Delay overboard (together with, in every liberal's dream scenario, Frist in a glorious twofer), please wait until Frist rams through the destruction of filibusters. Might come in handy later.

Thanks,
Gattigap

I think they should keep DeLay around to help them with the 2006 election cycle. He can work with all the people with contested seats, making public appearances with them. It will mobilize their base.

Naw. They're gonna have a change of heart right before the next congressional elections, and put the rule back. Just in case.

So this is why the Dems are piling on so much right now, years before a vote - they want us to keep him!

I'm so naive.

(P.S. No, This IS a debating club where you get oratory points for good speeches.)

And thusly is the bell unrung.

You tawk funny.

Normally the Republicans are pretty good about throwing their trash overboard. Lesson from Watergate. We usually put party before individuals - we threw out Gingrich, Livingston, Lott etc. The Dems usually circle the wagons to their detriment. They tried to hold onto Wright way too long. And Clinton. If the Senate Dems had gotten Clinton to resign, Gore would have been an incumbant and almost certainly would have won in 2000. A Republican would have been forced to resign.

And as far as Delay getting stuff through. I just don't see it. Where are the spending cuts, free trade agreement with central America, tax reform etc. They did get the tax cuts through but I think that was more Bush than Delay. Hell, Reagan got Tax cuts through with a Dem majority. Discipline - what Discipline?

The Dems are piling on because they are wounding him. But they can't push him out. They make him look as bad as possible and then hope we are dumb enough to keep him around.

Good plan. Because, y'all will always be controlling everything forevermore, and will never need to work with us. Making the gulf as deep as possible is clearly the way to go. Kudos. Charming.

Hmmm. According to you, we're all heartless, soulless, evil, stupid morons who should have been aborted in the third grade. I think our relationship is already tenuous at best.

Well, they're piling on him because he's being such a twit today. You think this stuff keeps for years if you don't say anything about it?

I figured the noogies that the Dems are currently delivering are so provided such that he could be, you know, "wounded." Y'all want to keep him, toss him, be our guest.

Naw, I take it back. Please keep him. I'm with Ty on this one -- it should be the primary goal of the Dems to tie DeLay as closely as humanly possible to every single Republican in Congress.

Keep him, so that in the general, we can run videos of even Lincoln Chafee doing body shots off DeLay's ass. By that time, Smilin' Tom will probaby be in depositions for the Indian embezzlement stuff, which will be deconstructed endlessly on whatever shit replaces Crossfire.

You left out greedy and selfish.

My ego can only take so much at once.

TRA '86 was revenue neutral. You should read Showdown at Gucchi Gulch.

I miss bipartisanship. It blows me away how the R leadership (Frist, Bush, DeLay) seem totally unwilling to work with anyone who hasn't sold their soul. I understand unity but they are wacko. I wish we had Dole or McCain instead of any of them.

ETA oops. I said something nice about some Rs. I forgot, if I think bilmore is a short-sighted asshole I must think all Rs are that way. My mistake.