Overturning Roe
 

Spoken like a true naively arrogant liberal elitist. The truth is once you get 40 miles out from the pseudo-intellectual salons of your Gomorrahesque enclaves of Berkely, Greenwich Village and Georgetown, there would be three cheers arising from the majority of this country. Scratch the surface a bit and you will see how its solely the imperialistic Judicial autocracy that has created and nutured this culture of death in America. 59 million strong voted for life in November, the Demos can't touch that no matter how shrillly Allred and Estrich shriek.

The Day of Reckoning is coming. Batton down your hatches and say a prayer (if you know one).

Overturning Roe
 

Again, you are living in a dream world and not paying attention to the facts. The Blue states are much more solid Dem than the populous Red states are solid red. If Roe is overturned and abortion becomes the defining issue it is all over for the Republicans nationwide. Florida is full of moderate Republicans that have migrated from the north. The southwest is all on the edge - Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado would all become solid blue. The only large state that would stay with the Republicans is Texas. With Florida, Illinois, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and California all solid blue the Republicans would not be able to win the presidency. The South and the non-pacific west do not constitute a majority.

Overturning Roe
 

Thanks, I feel much better now.

Overturning Roe
 

And Western states that are growing are becoming more Democratic as they do so: Nevada, Arizona, Colorado. People who move from California, Massachusetts and Illinois to places like Nevada, Arizona and Colorado bring their politics with them.

And I don't understand what any of that has to do with my point. Politics is more than a series of exit polls. If Roe were reversed and abortion could be criminalized on a statewide basis, you would see an enormous mobilization around the issue on the left, comparable at the least to what you've seen with abortion on your side for the past three decades. People who already disagree with you would start to work a lot harder, instead of sitting back and letting the courts worry about it. That's one. You'd also see lots of moderate voters who are pro-choice, at least to an extent, who would feel threatened by the militant pro-life wing of the GOP. Right now, the GOP can play to that base and keep them riled up without doing much of anything for them. Has Bush and the GOP Congress made much of an effort to curtail abortion? No. And they can blame the Supreme Court for that. Without Roe to blame, they would have to take the heat for pissing off either moderates or their own most fervid supporters. I would like to see all of that happen, even though I know that it would make abortions unavailable to a great many people, because I think it would a better thing for the country in the long run. And I'm hardly the only Democrat who thinks this.

Overturning Roe
 

I've lived longer in the heartland than you have, my socky friend.

Overturning Roe
 

Keep dreaming those RiNO dreams. There are millions more faithful that Rove & Co. didn't need to tap last time just waiting to celebrate the rejuvenation of a respect for life and liberty in these United States.

And plenty of moderate Republicans and moral but misguided "blue dog democrats" who will come running home to the arms of W's Republican party when the militant pro-death wing of the donkey party starts howling.

Here are the poster girls who will do the lord's work for the party:

http://www.findlaci2003.us/gloria-6-14-03.jpg http://rmeek141.home.comcast.net/Estrich.jpeghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...llarySUCKS.jpg

Overturning Roe
 

Where I'm at, I ain't wondering what the hell happened. No offense or nothing, of course.

Its the liberals who are telling us that 35 states would be in danger of banning abortion the day Roe is overturned. So the majority there is happy.

And did you honestly just say Pennsylvania goes solid blue over this issue? Who in the world do you think Casey was anyway? The rest is all speculation.

Its not me who has the facts (really, best guesses for a hypothetical) wrong. Don't mean to sound hostile, but I understand why you think this threatens the CA Republican party.

Overturning Roe
 

Enough!

Josh Bolton -- Man of Peace
 

I've reconsidered my thinking about Josh Bolton. Even after Republican officials testify to Congress that he is The Angriest Man in North America, after more anectodal stories suggesting that Bolton lives to piss off allies, we're treated to another amusing anecdote, coming from a woman who encountered Bolton before his illustrious public service career.

Her letter to the committee, via Tapped:

• After months of incompetence, poor contract performance, inadequate in-country funding, and a general lack of interest or support in our work from the prime contractor, I was forced to make US AID officials aware of the prime contractor's poor performance.
  
  I flew from Kyrgyzstan to Moscow to meet with other Black Manafort employees who were leading or subcontracted to other US AID projects. While there, I met with US AID officials and expressed my concerns about the project -- chief among them, the prime contractor's inability to keep enough cash in country to allow us to pay bills, which directly resulted in armed threats by Kyrgyz contractors to me and my staff.
  
  Within hours of sending a letter to US AID officials outlining my concerns, I met John Bolton, whom the prime contractor hired as legal counsel to represent them to US AID. And, so, within hours of dispatching that letter, my hell began.
  
  Mr. Bolton proceeded to chase me through the halls of a Russian hotel -- throwing things at me, shoving threatening letters under my door and, generally, behaving like a madman. For nearly two weeks, while I awaited fresh direction from my company and from US AID, John Bolton hounded me in such an appalling way that I eventually retreated to my hotel room and stayed there. Mr. Bolton, of course, then routinely visited me there to pound on the door and shout threats.
  
  When US AID asked me to return to Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan in advance of assuming leadership of a project in Kazakstan, I returned to my project to find that John Bolton had proceeded me by two days. Why? To meet with every other AID team leader as well as US foreign-service officials in Bishkek, claiming that I was under investigation for misuse of funds and likely was facing jail time. As US AID can confirm, nothing was further from the truth.
  
  He indicated to key employees of or contractors to State that, based on his discussions with investigatory officials, I was headed for federal prison and, if they refused to cooperate with either him or the prime contractor's replacement team leader, they, too, would find themselves the subjects of federal investigation. As a further aside, he made unconscionable comments about my weight, my wardrobe and, with a couple of team leaders, my sexuality, hinting that I was a lesbian (for the record, I'm not).

Democrats should just get out of the way of this nomination. Conservatives argue that Bolton is a great pick for the Bush Administration because Bush had the courage to pass over some milequetoast dunderhead, and pick someone who shared his views about the UN.

Bravo, I say! Let us take Bush at his word and put this man in a position of true power. Put Bolton outside the building, give him some matches and a bottle of bourbon, and tell him that every member of his staff thinks that he's wrong about his "reform" proposals, that the Italians still want to know where the WMDs are, and that the Ambassador to China just called him a pussy. Then we'll see some diplomacy!

Gattigap

Overturning Roe
 

Am I scaring you friend? Good. We need to be scared. Scared straight. Scared wide awake. The conservatives and morally minded people of this nation underestimated Bill Clinton in 1992 and we paid the price of 8 years of moral degeneration and ultimately having our underbelly exposed to binladen's islamofacist minions. 3000 of America's finest paid the price because we weren't vigilant.

With 3 years to go, we don't have time to sit on our hands, play nice and pretend these foul harpies aren't coming to take away the American way of life. Try and ask Terri Schindler what they will do to you if you aren't careful. And dont scoff at Hillary's chances now, like Bush Senior and the idiots who surrounded him, because she will end up getting the last laugh in a little black Mao suit as the hammer and sickle flag gets raised over 1600 Penn Ave.

2008 is anybody's game and the dems are brewing a strong batch of koolaid to drunken up the sheeple on the coasts.

Stay strong and stay vigilant. And pray.

what bugs me
 

(1) Well, he assumed that you were a lawyer.

S_A_M

what bugs me
 

When I posted on Infirmation I came to the educated assumption that about half the posters were lawyers, about 20% were law students and the rest were assorted internet rabble. I remember your work over there SAM, do you think those numbers correlate to this board?

Also, what moniker does Plated use here? Or is that outable?

what bugs me
 

Hairy Large Mencken, although he hasn't been around for a while.

Overturning Roe
 

They exaggerate to make money. And the states that are going to overturn are ones with very few electoral points.

Overturning Roe
 

They're probably afraid it will happen. I would wager that the short-term effects would not be to lefties' liking, but that the long-term effects would be.

The Reagan Democrat has disappeared. Almost all pro-lifers are now in the Republican party. In addition, Nationwide about forty percent of Republicans are pro-choice. In California sixty five percernt of Republicans are pro-choice. There are very few pro-life Democrats. Pro-life people are much more likely to vote than pro-choice people. So if Roe is overturned, and you give the pro-choice people a reason to vote, we are doomed. There is a reason why Emily's list is the nations biggest fundraising organization.

There may be 45 million pro-life people but this country has almost 300 million people. The numbers are simply not on your side.

I raise a lot of money for the party, and the biggest problem I come across is that people won't donate to the GOP as long as it is the pro-life party. I convince a lot of pro-choice Republicans to donate to the party, but if Roe is overturned I ain't getting a dime out of any of them.

Overturning Roe
 

I think it would be to the liking of most. California Rs will learn not to present threatening pro-Life candidates. They'll become a bit more competitive when they promise not to do legislative pro-Life stuff.

The issue goes away in 35 states with, NOTE TO SPANKY!!!! 70 senate seats, where the majority gets what they want.

If there is a clear majority either way in a state, than the minority will have to learn to accept defeat on the issue, promise to let it go, and focus on other areas in elections. If I'm the minority, than I move to Indiana.

If there is no clear majority, than at least the issue gets localized to the states.

And nationally? Well, hopefully, we can stick to arguing about national issues! Like defense and economics.

And that's why there is no Democratic party anymore, Virginia.

Oops, sorry, I was just getting a little ahead of myself there.

Hello

Which is exactly why, after Kerry was defeated, Kerry, the Clintons, Pelosi and a whole bunch of other people started making noise about how they needed to bring the pro-Life people into the tent if the Ds want to win in 08.

I'm sorry, but your argument basically sounds like, "If you want California in the R tent, you better give up on this one". Well, guess what? Californian ain't in the tent, and it apparently doesn't have to be either.

And, as I sorta noted, it ain't our tent that people are fleeing. Its MA, CA and Cook County, IL (would love to see the totals for IL, of course).

And you guys are arguing that people are going to running to the Ds as saviors? Seriously, if this ain't it, please clarify. But if this is your central argument, I'm going to have to just note my disagreement, let y'all have the last word, and let it go before the board breaks.

Hello

Overturning Roe
 

Just like conservatives did after Roe, right? Yeah, I don't think so.

The California Democratic Party has identified states where expatriate Californians can tip the balance to turn the state blue. With real estate prices being what they are, and porn available on the internet, it's much easier to persuade California Democrats to move to, e.g., Arizona.

Overturning Roe
 

You really don't get this either. Roe was not an election!

Funny, because I know a lot of workers (read Republicans) from Chicago who have been moving out there too. Funny that.

I think it safe to write off Illinois, NY and California. Y'all can keep thinking your are the center of the universe, but the rest of the country functions just fine with yous people in the minority.

Overturning Roe
 

If you're reading my posts -- unclear to me -- then you understand that I'm down with you on the "Roe not an election" thing. That's why I think it would be better for my side if it were reversed.

But if you think that abortion is murder, than losing an election about it should change your mind any more than losing a judicial proceeding.

And answer me this: A lot of conservatives believe that statutes shouldn't mess with property rights, which are determined by the common law -- i.e., unelected judges. When it comes to property rights, they're all bent out of shape that elected legislatures are deciding the question instead of unelected judges, and then when it comes to abortion, they're all bent out of shape that unelected judges are deciding the question instead of elected legislatures. Is there some facially non-absurd principle behind this, or is it just a question of conservatives liking to feel victimized by the political process when they lose?

what bugs me
 

I am Plated!

what bugs me
 

No! I am Plated!

what bugs me
 

I am Plated!

How many votes did Bush get in November?

And it don't matter how many pro-anything Reps are in California. When calif. is in play there is no contest for the Presidency.

Overturning Roe
 

Do you believe in anything other than you'd like your side to win? Better for your side- sheeesh......

We haven't lost for awhile so its hard for us to say. What has your reaction been to losing lately?

The Dems vision- April 2005
 

Instead of trying to convince people you guys have some ability to govern- now you're going to fight the draft? that's at least one you'll win since there won't be a draft (you won!) unless we fuck up and elect one of you again.

• National Conference Against the Draft & Military Recruiting
  
  Saturday, April 16
  12 Noon – 6 pm
  PS 41 in Manhattan
  116 W. 11th St.
  
  Participants will include:
  
  ·Carl Webb, member of the Army National Guard who refused orders to deploy to Iraq
  
  ·Hadas Their, City College student who was arrested for protesting against military recruiters on campus
  
  ·Jeff Paterson, former Marine who refused to deploy to Iraq during the first Gulf War
  
  ·Larry Holmes, organizer with the Troops Out Now Coalition, Vietnam-era resister
  
  ·Monique Code, antiwar activist, Desert Storm veteran
  
  ·Representatives from youth organizations involved in counter-recruiting and draft resistance.
  
  As the occupation of Iraq continues and the Bush Administration contemplates new military actions, the Pentagon is finding itself overstretched and unable to meet recruiting quotas. Of the troops currently deployed in Iraq, 40% are members of the National Guard or Reserves, leading Lt. Gen. James Helmly to warn that the Army Reserve "is rapidly degenerating into a 'broken' force." These factors have led many to believe that the return of the draft is likely.
  
  In response, youth and students across the country are organizing to fight the draft and drive military recruiters off of their campus.
  
  On Saturday, April 16, youth, veterans, and anti-draft organizers from across the U.S. will gather for a Conference on Draft Resistance and Counter Recruiting. The conference, to be held at P.S. 41 in Manhattan, will feature draft resistance organizers, community activists, and students involved in counter-recruiting work. Workshops will focus on concrete actions and organizing tools to fight the draft, to organize resistance in the event of the return of conscription, and to remove military recruiters and ROTC programs from campuses.
  
  "We have received enormous interest in taking action to stop the draft and fight military recruiting," said Dustin Langley, a Navy Veteran and organizer with No Draft, No Way. "Young people are already under attack, with tuition increases, a lack of health care, and cuts in financial aid. Now they face the possibility of being dragged away from their homes to fight in a war based on lies. On April 16, we will be developing definite strategies to oppose the military machine that is targeting young people for death and destruction."
  
  More information
  
  
  
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Overturning Roe
 

I'm reading a bunch of pithy quotes about how overturning Roe would be good for the Democrats. And I'm noting how the pro-choicers have had and will have plenty of opportunities to legislate whatever they want on the issue. Instead, they posture about how they are the REAL majority... while they cry about the dangers of having this up to the majority and out of the hands of the courts.

For the "abortion is definitely murder" crowd, they'll have to adjust to their status as the majority in some places and the minority in others. On a non-partisan level, I think that's something you are okay with. If they continually torpedo the local Rs (in places like CA), than the local Rs will have to figure out ways to deal with it... like paying the scuttlers to move (back?) to Indiana or something.

And as for your thing about property rights, I don't know what you are talking about, but those aren't my people.

60,000 wakadoos
 

Say a prayer for me this weekend. The NRA is in town.

I'm pretty ambivilant on gun control, but the guys that are here are the crazy ones.

See, e.g.

http://images.chron.com/content/news.../15/nugent.jpg

There's a bi-partisan anti-Keynote Speaker Tom DeLay rally on Saturday evening in front of the convention center. This was the first day of the convention.

I'm trying to figure out what the minimum safe distance is. San Antonio?

60,000 wakadoos
 

Those aren't my people either, though I'm thinking of joining. There's a debate in the land of the NRA right now about whether VA Tech students can be banned from carrying guns to class if they have a conceal-carry permit.

I'm not entirely 100% for or against, but its nice that a state with a Dem governor can still have this kind of debate.

On another note, I saw the Alamo last night. Sam Houston was an ass!

what bugs me
 

Hi dad!

what bugs me
 

I really only post on the PB, and I think almost everyone here is a lawyer (save perhaps Adder) -- but your categories overlap.

S_A_M

what bugs me
 

I am Emmitt Smith.

60,000 wakadoos
 

Do you remember college? Anyone who favors letting college students pack heat on campus is absolutely crazy.

S_A_M

Overturning Roe
 

I think the country would be better off all around if Roe were reversed, because I think it would force issues about which people care back to the democratic process, away from the courts, and would get more people involving in politics.

Tonight, an Avila 2004 pinot noir.

Overturning Roe
 

Maybe your problem is that you think that Democrats and "pro-choicers" all agree about these things. I am pro-choice. But no so pro-choice that I wouldn't prefer to have the question decided by state legislatures instead of the High Nine.

Most of the conservatives who come here are libertarians, not cultural conservatives.

Overturning Roe
 

I don't think I can legitimately say "I win" here, but I can legitimately say that you and I are essentially in agreement on this point. If I've never made it clear yet, I'd rather see this ("force issues about which people care back to the democratic process, away from the courts, and would get more people involving in politics"), than see a complacent, fiscally-irresponsible, unaccounable R party in-charge for the next 4, 20 or 100 years. If that means that 50 states enact laws to allow abortion, I'll survive. If it means 49 states enact laws to allow abortion and 1 state enacts laws to ban it, than I'm moving to Indiana.

Have a good weekend Ty and all others!

Hello

Overturning Roe
 

I'm sure you'd see many more than one state ban abortion, and many lefties find that prospect untolerable.

Have a good weekend.