Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Ditto. Thank God and his son the Christ for the second amendment which is the ultimate earthly protector and enforcer of those rights.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

That's not a justification for it, but it does respond to one of the objections to it.

Of all the sorts of things you can tax to run a government, I think the estate tax is one of the fairest, because the money is going to people who have such a weak claim to it, relative to other taxes.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Think of it as paying tax to acquire property. Yeah, it's not quite accurate, since the recipient doesn't necessarily actually pay the tax (e.g., someone can get the house free and clear if there are other assets in the estate to pay the taxes -- then whoever gets the residual is getting kind of screwed). Hey, I know, think of some of the recipients as getting grossed up at the expense of the person who gets the residual.

So, see, if the decedent only has, say, real property, it's as if they have pledged it partially to pay the tax on passing it on. If they gave the whole property to the gov't, there wouldn't be the issue, but since they want to give it to someone else, there is a tax on the transfer. By not keeping enough relatively liquid assets around to pay the tax that they know is coming (and they could sell the property, buy something 2/3 as expensive, and keep the remainder in a diversified portfolio to pay taxes with, or whatever), they are forcing the recipients of their largesse to go through the painful process.

It's like if you went to go buy me 1 carat tw diamond earrings in platinum settings, but only brought the list price. You'd have to get white gold or something so that you'd have enough to pay the sales tax. No, you aren't buying online. Yes, you are going to the store.

This transcript of an exchange between Jonathan Bolton and Bill O'Reilly from a few years back shows that Bolton is completely unfit to serve in this administration. Bolton clearly wouldn't have invaded Iraq to save a few lives.

• BOLTON: I think that the United States is now involved in a conflict where it has no tangible national interest, where it has no clear objectives in mind, and where the ultimate outcome could be very risky for what our real interests are, as evidenced by the fact that we've already severely strained relations with Russia.
  
  I think this is a mistake. I think it continues a series of mistakes that the Clinton administration has made in former Yugoslavia. And I'm very uneasy about the situation tonight.
  
  O'REILLY: All right. Now let's say you and I were walking down the street in Washington, DC. And across the road we saw a gang beating up a woman and hurting a woman. We didn't know that woman at all. And it wasn't in our interests personally to stop the beating.
  
  But I think you and I would cross the street. Don't you, Mr. Bolton?
  
  BOLTON: Well, maybe. Or we might call the police. Or we might do something else. But I think it's very misleading...
  
  O'REILLY: I'll tell you what. I would cross the street right there.
  
  BOLTON: ... Good for you.
  
  O'REILLY: OK.
  
  BOLTON: I think it's very misleading to try to analogize what's going on in the Balkans with a street crime in the United States. What the Kosovar-Albanians and the Serbs are fighting about has deep historical roots, where the United States basically has no interest in whatever the outcome is. The Serbian...
  
  O'REILLY: Well, I would agree that we don't have an immediate interest. But on a humanitarian basis, both you and I know the Serbian army can go into Kosovo and crush those people and do pretty much what they want to do to them. And they will, based upon what they've done in Bosnia, based upon what they tried to do in Slovenia.
  
  These are brutal, brutal people. They are not a civilized, disciplined army.
  
  And I find it difficult to stand by and watch another Cambodia, another Rwanda, unfold. And I believe the United States has a responsibility here.
  
  BOLTON: Let me ask you this, Mr. O'Reilly. How many dead Americans is it worth to you to stop the brutality?
  
  O'REILLY: I don't think I would quantify that because...
  
  BOLTON: I think you have to quantify it. I think if you don't answer that question...
  
  O'REILLY: ... I think if you're going to be a superpower...
  
  BOLTON: ... you're ducking the key point that the commander in chief has to decide upon before putting American troops into a combat situation. We are now at war with Serbia. And the president has to be able to justify to himself and to the American people that Americans are about to die, or may well die, for a certain specific American interest.
  
  O'REILLY: And I think the American military people over there understand that because of the status of America as the superpower policeman of the world, which we are whether we like it or not, there are some situations where we will have to put ourselves at risk for a long-term objective. And that long-term objective is basically not letting butchers like Milosevic run around and do what they want with impunity while we have the power to stop it.

via War and Piece

Who Cares Who Runs the UN? Can we have a "No Tax" day?
 

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=8157194

Put aside the Iraq decision which of course the current UN couldn't act on, put aside the widespread rape by "peacekeepers," put aside the Annan family college fund that killed millions of Iraqi babies- WTF is the point of the UN? Is it simply for Islamic countries to work out grudges against us and Israel?

• U.N. Calls for Combating 'Defamation' of Islam
  
  GENEVA (Reuters) - The United Nations Commission on Human Rights called on Tuesday for combating defamation of religions, especially Islam, and condemned discrimination against Muslims in the West's war on terrorism.
  
  The 53-member state forum adopted a resolution, presented by Pakistan on behalf of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), deploring the intensification of a "campaign of defamation" against Muslims following the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.
  
  Western countries, including the United States and European Union (EU), voted against the text, calling it unbalanced for failing to address problems suffered by other religious groups.

So okay, some resolution that doesn't mean much- but part of the basis is:

• In a recent report, the U.N. special investigator on racism, Doudou Diene, cited examples including "Islamophobic violence" after the murder last November of Dutch film director Theo Van Gogh,

How can an organization that we and the rest of the world are supposed to rely upon look at that incident as anything other than a dramatic indictment against radical Islam?

A guy makes a movie about mistreatment of women under Islam and he gets death threats then is killed- a MP critic of Islam must be basically in hiding under guard 24/7- do they think the Dutch incident isn't at the edge of the divide?

Sure the great bulk of Islamic people in the netherlands are probably good Dutch, but a chunk of them ain't behaving like the people who'll sell you hash at the laundrymat- its not understandable that there is some backlash?

Want to cure the backlash- then root out the hate messengers from your mosques/ expose those who threaten and kill, but don't be surprised if some people react when people speaking "for" Islam kill people for making a movie.

I really don't get the reason the UN exists- and I don't mean that in a neo-con way. Are the charity parts that much more effective than private charities?

I know- peacekeepers- and they've done good and we shouldn't let what they did in Africa ruin that- but so much of what the UN does as reported seems like we could have done just as well w/o it.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

That may be true as a general matter, but hardly as it's currently structured. If you want to make the current estate tax "fairer" you would eliminate the exemption for the first $1m+ dollars. Everyone pays it--at the same rate.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

I swear if anyone posts another Tax post I'm done here- Ty can you please start a tax thread?

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

BTW, repeal is on today's calendar in the House (WaPo article). Incidentally, it's motivated by a desire to save a family business--the Mars family's business.

confidential to Hank--see you on the FB.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Burger- the old PB was way fun, and maybe that was due to people who aren't here now- and maybe it was to to the periodic BT cut and paste that led to days of fucking with him- but the tax crap is dry and of interest to the people to whom it is of interest, and I really think it pushes other people away. maybe it doesn't matter anymore and maybe a tax thread isn't needed because the PB is dead except for tax- but go back and read some old PB and tell me you don't miss that- c'mon b you know you do

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

i'd say the same thing about the iraq war. Anything's boring after 100 posts.

Are the arcana of tax issues interesting? No--Club should just go learn how the estate tax actually functions before wonk has to explain it all. But personally, it seems to me there's a legitimate, and highly important policy/politics question of how we go about raising revenue to keep supporting all of the dems' social programs.

Maybe I didn't spend enough time there, but the old PB always struck me like one of those call-in shows, with al franken and rush limbaugh both responding.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

• "Show me the tribute money." And they brought unto him the money. And he saith unto them, "Whose is this image and superscription?" They saith unto him "Caesar's." Then saith he unto them, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

Matthew (a tax collector, btw), 22: 19-21

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

But nothing goes "BOOM!!!" in this discussion, so why on earth would we care about it?

Dem's social programs like Medicare prescription drugs? I'm thinking you threw that in there in an attempt to instigate. INSTIGATOR. That's not nice first thing in the morning . . .

Damn. I hate it when Bill O'Reilly makes sense.

WWJD About The Estate Tax?
 

"Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Matthew 19:21-24

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

After listening to Ty for the last two years, I'm pretty sure nothing goes boom in iraq, despite all of Saddam's efforts to make us think otherwise.

North Korea, on the other hand, we ought to invade now.

For Hank
 

from A Tiny Revolution

• Many people have noticed a Washington Post article about a recent big conference called "Confronting the Judicial War on Faith." However, few have analyzed this section:
  
  
  Quote:

  ...lawyer-author Edwin Vieira told the gathering that [Supreme Court Justice Anthony] Kennedy should be impeached because his philosophy, evidenced in his opinion striking down an anti-sodomy statute, "upholds Marxist, Leninist, satanic principles drawn from foreign law."

  Now, it should go without saying that sodomy is Marxist/Leninist/Satanic/Foreign, but you'd be surprised how many people don't know this. Or maybe you wouldn't be surprised, given the state of our nation's public schools!
  
  Anyway, we all owe Mr. Vieira a debt of gratitude for emphasizing this. The only place I'd quibble with him is that he didn't delve into the larger issue. Yes, sodomy is Marxist/Leninist/Satanic/Foreign. But other sex acts are as well. And then there are the sex acts that are Marxist & Satanic & Foreign, but not Leninist; some that are merely Satanic & Foreign; and even a few (a very few) that are merely Satanic.
  
  To lessen the confusion, I've produced the below Venn diagram that should help you understand sex better. As you'll see:
  
• all sexual acts are Satanic, with two small exceptions (see lower right hand corner and far right)
• most sex is drawn from foreign law, and all sex drawn from foreign law is Satanic (with one small exception; again, see far right)
• Lenin was a homo
  
  I hope this clears things up. Please let me know if you have any questions about this important topic.

http://tinyrevolution.com/mt-static/images/SEX.jpg

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

According to the US Attorney that spoke at a conference I attended last week, the Medicare prescription drug benefit is the largest public benefit ever. The US Attorney then went on to list all the ways that they think people are going to try and defraud the program.

I believe, and Burger can correct me if I'm wrong on this, that Republicans controled the House, the Senate and the White House when that benefit was conferred on the American people. Maybe it's not a social program since the pharma industry is gonna make so much money off of it?

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

When they strip mine there are booms. I am against strip mining and other bad things. A grassroots citizen's group is taking their fight directly to the Tennessee Farm Bureau, one of the state's most powerful special interests, in an effort to gain regulation over timber harvesting and aerial spraying of dangerous chemicals.

Save Our Cumberland Mountains (SOCM) contends that the health of many rural Tennesseans and the future of the state¹s forests rely on two bills currently before the State Legislature. One of the bills would place limited regulations on timber "chip mills" while the other would regulate the aerial spraying of pesticides around homes and public buildings.

The two bills are unrelated with the exception that both are being proposed by SOCM and both are meeting strong resistance from the same lobbying powerhouse _ the Farm Bureau.

SOCM claims that the Farm Bureau's opposition does not reflect the opinions of many Farm Bureau members, nor the vast majority of Tennesseans as shown in a poll conducted last October by the University of Tennessee.

That poll, conducted statewide by the UT Social Science Research Institute, showed that over 92 percent of Tennesseans polled believe that the aerial spraying of chemicals should be managed in a way that protects the health of those living near agricultural fields and commercial forests. Of those polled, 76 percent favor a policy that prohibits spraying near homes and public buildings.

The respondents crossed geographic and political lines. Rural residents favor buffer zones by over 77 percent and large landowners by nearly 89 percent. The greatest level of support came from homes with two to three children, where 80 to 90 percent favor restrictions on spraying.

Among those persons who were polled, 77 percent also expressed concern about the amount of timber clear-cutting in Tennessee. Landowners are more concerned (81.4 %), as are rural residents, while three out of every four people in the poll who expressed an opinion are in favor of laws that would limit and regulate chip mills.

To underscore their claims, SOCM kicked off a day of lobbying by residents from across the state on Tuesday with a rally in front of the Nashville office of the Farm Bureau.

"Our purpose here is to impress on Farm Bureau officials that they need to re-think their position on these bills," Dorothy Cope of Van Buren County stated. "The polls show that they are out of touch with the majority of Tennesseans and we believe they are out of touch with their own membership as well." Several Farm Bureau members who have been affected by aerial spraying joined forces with SOCM Tuesday in calling for protections.

The bill to regulate aerial chemical spraying, SB168/HB170, sponsored by Senator Doug Jackson (D) of Dickson and Representative Mike Turner of Old Hickory (D) would require aerial applicators to leave a 100¹ buffer zone around residences where only the ground application of pesticides or herbicides can be applied. A 300¹ buffer zone would also be established around public buildings.

The bill would also require a public service announcement to local radio stations no later than the day of the application informing residents of any scheduled spraying. It would also require the Department of Agriculture to keep a registry of pesticide-sensitive people and vulnerable businesses such as beekeepers, who upon paying a $25 fee, would be added to the registry and notified prior to spraying.

The establishment of this registry is of particular importance to those who have heightened sensitivity to pesticides. "Aerial spraying of cotton fields is causing health problems for many people and killing our children," said Rick Baker of Dyersburg. Baker¹s 5-year-old grandson, Joshua Hanks, died in 2002 after his bronchial tubes closed up.

"He had asthma, which was being controlled by medication," explained Baker. "The hospital ran a series of tests and asked my daughter why so many chemicals were in his blood. The most prominent chemical was the one used in spraying the cotton fields, Malathion."

Advanced notification of the spraying would give pesticide sensitive residents like Joshua Hanks time to leave the area during the spraying.

The other bill _ the Tennessee Forest Conservation Act HB 318 (McDonald) and SB 1945 (Fowler), would require new or expanded pulpwood mills and chip mills to obtain a state permit. The permit could be denied only if a resource assessment shows that the expansion would result in over-harvesting and push local forests beyond the point of sustaining themselves with new growth.

The bill would have no effect on local landowners that harvest less than 50,000 tons of pulpwood a year and would not apply to sawmills that process timber for housing and other construction. It is based in part on current policies required to qualify for economic incentives in Kentucky. Tennessee¹s pulpwood industry already conducts voluntary resource surveys in many cases, similar to those that would be mandated by the Act.

Franklin Burroughs, co-owner of B& B Sawmill in Henderson County expressed concern about the growth of chip mills. "I¹m concerned about the loss of hardwood forests in our area. We¹ve got some large chip mills here _ one in Centerville and one in Counce and they¹re using up quite a lot of hardwood. It's hard to compete against the chip mills. They buy up land and clear it and replant it in pine. We need some kind of regulation so they¹ll be something left for my business and other small, local businesses like mine."

"The Farm Bureau, by opposing these bills, is representing large corporate farms and the timber companies, not the majority of their members in rural areas," Mike Crews, a member of the Farm Bureau for 30 years in Lawrence County insisted. "They need to remember that small farmers have children who breathe that air too."

This is the kind of issue I'd like to see more of here.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

I thought they didn't control all three until after the 2004 election? The drug bene was passed before then.

It's my understanding that the way some stuff is written in the law/regs makes it look like claims will be subject to the False Claims Act, which provides for treble damages or something, but I (THANK GOD) have not been the one working this area so I just sort of hear things when they are "exciting." They do seem to be working pretty hard to make the program usable by employers/unions that provide retiree health coverage, but it may be that lots of other stuff is going on but I hear about the employer side more (obviously).

For Hank
 

When i was 13 I put powder sugar on my penis to try and get my dog to lick it- she didn't so I didn't do the act. Can I still run for congress on a family values stance?

Things that go boom
 

Not mushroom cloud booms, but any kind of booms. Roadside bombs, for instance. Or "crack!" like rifle fire.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Wasn't it 50-49-1?

Yeah, it's protected by the false claims act, but there's plenty of opportunity for malfeasence. Part of it is that the drug benefit plans that are already around like Medco aren't used to dealing with the unique needs of seniors. They don't generally work in places like dialysis centers and nursing homes, but they will now. They also don't generally deal with captive patients with alzheimers, transplant patients, alcoholics with end organ damage, diabetics with end organ damage, amputations, rheumatoid arthritis, and autoimmune disorders. There's a lot of opportunity to take advantage of the fact that patients don't have control over what drugs they're prescribed, especially now that the drug benefit is covered by Medicare.

There've already been a few cases of kickbacks from drug makers trying to get on the formularies for some benefit companies. There are issues with automatic reorders, branding generics as brand name for the higher reimbursement, false "average wholesale price", and charging higher prices to consumers with drug cards than those without.

Walmart was nailed for short prescriptions in 2004 (dispensing 40 pills and charging for 45, for example), and Rite Aid was nailed for returning drugs to stock the same year (presecription called in, filled, billed, never picked up, and eventually put back in the bins).

Identity theft is going to be a big prescription drug benefit issue too.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

I propose a political literacy test be implemented as a condition to posting on the PB. Any seconds?

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

I propose a common-sense test be implemented, and a "making authoritative comments on things with absolutely no knowledge of the issue other than a handout from the DNC/RNC" ban be instituted.

Christ. If it was 50-49-1, really, no one was controlling. And I asked, I didn't assume. Honest to god, if I controlled more crap around here, your building would be dust. And I mean that in a personal way, not a terrorism way.

WWJD About The Estate Tax?
 

Ah, one of my favorite Biblical verses. Anyone know the numbers on Pat Robertson's personal fortune? How about Randall Terry? Jimmy Joe Jack Dobson? Tom DeLay? Heck, I understand our current born-again President's worth a few millions from his stadium deal...

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

It was 51-48-1.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

51 R or 51 D? I think 51 R. Which makes my comment on point, you ignorant fuck.

Did you look up actual facts on the estate tax you were oh-so-comfortable making blanket statements about last night?

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Dunno how he defines his terms, but here areactual/projected spending on entitlements from 2004-10

____Social Security
492
515
540
567
596
630
665

______Medicare
265
290
340
381
407
433
460

______Medicaid and SCHIP
181
194
199
209
225
245
266

______Other
299
337
331
319
324
328
351

So, dunno where prescription drugs fit in, but the projection doesn't make it larger than soc. sec.

Maybe what it was was the bill calling for the most spending as projected at the time the bill was passed, looking out 10 years under the budget rules.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

My bad, you're right. 51% is not control.

At the risk of pulling a Hank, this reminds of that line in a Few Good Men, where Kiefer Sutherland says something to the effect of "I love you Navy boys. Whenever us marines need to go somewhere, you give us a ride." That's how I feel about tax lawyers.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Then shut the fuck up, or ask questions/admit you don't know how to drive the goddamn car, instead of telling us how the car works. You jackass.

I asked about the control issue because I was not sure. Then, I was told 50/49/1, which would give no one control. Then you were your normal asshole annoying deserves to go BOOM self, and I don't recall what I said.

Board motto!

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

You must be confusing this with another board.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Yup. Please name all 50 state capitols, and the party to which their political leader belongs!

Bonus points for any of the 10 largest-by-population cities in America which otherwise don't fall on the list above.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

I won't bother to cut/paste a 50 state list, but wouldn't the three largest cities, NYC (Albany), LA (Sacramento), and Chicago (Springfield), all be on that list? Add in Miami (Tallahassee), Dallas and Houston (Austin), and Seattle (Olympia) as others. Throw in St. Louis (Jefferson City), Las Vegas (Carson City), and Philadelphia (Harrisburg). Bonus guesses: Minneapolis (St. Paul)..

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Dunno. This is the text of his slide on the issue:

MEDICARE PART D WILL
DRIVE THE ENFORCEMENT
AGENDA
�� On January 1, 2006, the largest social benefit
program in the history of the United States begins.
�� $70 billion for oral drugs
�� Whistleblower suits
�� Potential defendants:
– Manufacturers
– PBMs
– Physicians
– Institutions

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

San Antonio is slightly bigger than Dallas, though I think that the Metoplex is larger than the surrounding area around SA.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Fuck that- I say make people say something amusing or they don't get a code to post. And No being grandfathered in SS, you'll have to go copy something you did pre-lobotomy.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Not too sure, but I know with certainty the answer to three of the bonus questions. Apparently, last week, I knew only two.

0 for 50 with certainty, but I think I'd go 30 or 32 / 50 guessing the party of the leader of each of the 50 state capitols.

Coming roundabout back to your point, that would be weird. Are none of the 10 largest-by-population cities in America a state capitol? Anyone, anyone?

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

You and I disagree about whether progressive taxation is fair.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

That's true. But I also think that the calculus of what's fairly progressive with respect to income tax and estate tax are different. Kind of like how property tax is not progressive (other than possibly some exemptions for homesteads, etc.)