Free Trade LOWERS Median Income???
 

Aren't a lot of imports actually brewed in the US under licensing agreements with domestic brewers?

I know, I know. Whiff.

Free Trade LOWERS Median Income???
 

No whiff. I first included beer workers in my list, then realized they hadn't been priced out of jobs, but then I didn't want to think of an alternative example. What else do we make?

Free Trade LOWERS Median Income???
 

Fries with that.

The Torture BOard
 

Or serving with Club's Commandos.

http://www.occasionalhell.com/infdev...ges/pear01.jpg

The Torture BOard
 

Has a nice ring to it.

The Torture BOard
 

Your titles could have alliteration too -- Raping Ringleader, Solomon of Sodomy, Kid Killer.

The Torture BOard
 

That's not really fair to Club. :(

After all, he argued only that raping and killing children might be justified if there were really good reasons for it. So, don't be so radical and extremist on this issue, fringe. Remember -- moderation in all things.

S_A_M

The Torture BOard
 

I would like to go with Sultan of Sodomy in place of Solomon of Sodomy.

It's not about club, it's about alliteration. Heh. about alliteration.

Did he feel that there should be specially trained forces for these actions, or that the decision should be left to the average soldier on the field? Because it could be that Club's Commandos are the elite interrogation force.

The Torture BOard
 

Well, its still in the developement stage, but i know one funding option he was looking at was to offer interogation positions out at auctions. So you could bid for the chance to do an interrogation, and even create your own torture scenario. Club's role would be to find an appropriate and deserving interrogee.

The Torture BOard
 

Isn't that assonance?

The Torture BOard
 

Imagine the new Army recruitment slogans.

The Torture BOard
 

Probably.

Sounds like Bolton's nomination is in trouble.

Yet it seems that the Republicans on the committee don't really care about these allegations, so the nomination will probably still go through.

Maybe. Apparently today's testimony was pretty wild.* Towards the end, Senator Lugar, the committee chair said, "This may be the most controversial nomination President Bush has made.... They [the Bush administration] will find another ambassador in the event this one is not satisfying."

That doesn't sound like a vote of confidence, but I don't really know what's going on.

* e.g., a GOP appointee testified, in essence, that Bolton lied yesterday when he said he didn't try to have an analyst fired.

Yet Chaffee, who's certainly no partisan, still is going to vote for him? I haven't followed this that closely, but it seems like something else is going on here.

Can I ask, who shot JFK? And was John Hinkley acting alone, or was he part of the VLWC?

Chafee had said that he was "inclined" to vote for him, but that was before the hearings. Obviously the Administration will be pressuring him and everyone else to vote in favor of Bolton. Chafee will just have to decide whether it's worth taking a stand on this one.

When I read about Bolton, I'm amazed that anyone who doesn't agree with his views about the UN and the world could think he'd make a good UN Ambassador, so I would imagine that at least some of the other Republicans on the committee (e.g., Lugar) are not crazy about voting for him.

Cliff Barnes was seen on the grassy knoll talking to Susan MacDougal.
 

Wasn't it Sue Ellen's sister, the one played by Bing Crosby's daughter? You know, the spurned mistress?

Huh? Oh, I thought you asked "who shot JR?" Nevermind.

Cliff Barnes was seen on the grassy knoll talking to Susan MacDougal.
 

I shot JR. I thought everyone knew that. It was on my T-shirt.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

From WaPo

• WITH MEDICAID and food stamps on the chopping block, the House of Representatives is about to vote for a $290 billion tax break for the richest sliver of Americans. The subject is, once again, the estate tax. Under the convoluted, dishonest plan Congress approved in 2001, the estate tax was to be gradually reduced and eliminated by 2010, only to spring back the following year to its 2001 level: a tax of 55 percent on estates of $1 million or more. Tomorrow the House is set to vote to keep full repeal in place after 2010.
  
  This is unnecessary, irrational and unaffordable. Those who inveigh against the "death tax" point to the travails of family farmers and other small-business owners whose heirs are supposedly forced to liquidate enterprises to pay the tax bill. In fact, even if the estate tax were to revert in 2011 to its 2001 level -- and no one believes that the exemption will remain at $1 million -- it would affect the estates of only 2 percent of those expected to die that year. At $3.5 million (and $7 million for a couple) -- the level proposed in a Democratic alternative sponsored by Rep. Earl Pomeroy (N.D.) -- a mere three-tenths of 1 percent of estates would be covered. In other words, no one but the richest Americans would be asked to pay estate tax.
  
  Moreover, an analysis by the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center supports the contention that the family forced to sell its farm to pay the tax is, if not a fiction, close to it. Looking at situations in which farm and business assets represent most of the estate, the Tax Policy Center found that there would be just 50 affected in 2011 in the entire country if the exemption were set at $3.5 million.

To be fair, an argument could be made that Republican support for this measure notwithstanding the extraordinary benefits conferred far beyond this identified, victimized farmer class represents an abberational departure from Republican orthodoxy, which under other circumstances is designed merely to, uh, encourage hard work and reward economic investment. Or something.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Sigh. Apparently it is now OK to target a minority of the population, so long as that minority is "rich."

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

"target" here being an odd euphemism for progressive taxation

God bless the principle of equality that drives you to say that the rich and poor alike ought to be allowed to inherit vast sums of unearned money, much like both are equally free to sleep under bridges

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

I think you're misinterpreting an attack on Congressional disingenuousness as "an attack on the rich."

If the argument is that the death tax is morally wrong and that noone, from the impoverished to Bill Gates, should have to pay a fucking penny upon death, then GOP congressmen should be unafraid to say so, smile proudly at the amounts of money saved for those benefitting from this measure, and (presumably) articulate some plan to adjust to the loss of revenue.

Hiding behind Mom, Apple Pie, and a largely nonexistent class of family farmers to justify this legislation is simply cowardly.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

OK Mr. Democrat Guy, me and the rest of the country are sick to death of the obsequious, pointy-headed attacks on Republican hypocrisy and disingenuousness. We get it. They don't mean what they say. Get over it, and make a case on substance.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

You mean progressive double taxation. The money has already been taxed.

God bless the principal that property rights are illussory in this country

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

I agree with you. Hiding behind farmers is bullshit.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Been there, done that.

Jeez. How many times are you gonna switch teams?

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Not as income to the recipient. As bilmore would observe, the donor is dead.

What moral right do you have to inherit money? It's not yours. It wasn't yours. You did nothing to earn it. You deserve it no more than the next person.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Both parties are hypocrits. As if this debate regarding the death taxes is a fiscal policy debate, rather than an income redistribution debate.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Because estate tax proceeds were divvied up among the rest of the population?


This tax change is driving the country further and further into the red, and there is no productive purpose served by it.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

You're talking about a GOP plan to make it easier for really rich people to give lots of money to people who've done nothing to earn it, and the worst thing you can say about it is that it's disingenuous? I don't disagree, but please. And the money involved could solve the Social Secuity budget issues that Republicans pretend to care about when they see a chance to take benefits away from the poor and middle class.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Look, we're just not going to agree on this, and there hasn't been enough time elasped since our last death tax debate, so I'm going to stop right here.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Why isn't it both? You have a bunch of irresponsible conservatives (oops, that's redudant) who have created a massive budget deficit once again proposing to cut taxes without any idea how to pay for it.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

No, because the main rationale for taxing it is essentially that the recipient never "earned it" so he or she should have to pay some more to the piper.

I'd like to see the numbers as to the effects. With all the estate planning devices out there, I doubt this has a very big effect. I never thought I'd say this, but where's fringey when you need her?

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

I doubt that we'll agree, and I also doubt that you can ever put forward some sort of moral theory that explains why rich kids should have the "right" to get huge sums of unearned money. The sorts of theories (John Locke, anyone?) underlying property rights don't justify it. The subject is more bound up in our feelings about death.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

How about ranchers?

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

From the column I linked above:

• ...because the wealthy have gotten wealthier over the past three decades or so, the estate tax produces a lot of money. Counting both revenue losses and added interest costs, complete repeal of the estate tax would cost the government close to $1 trillion between 2012 and 2021, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

Because the DEMs would oppose it even if we were in the black.

I agree that the GOP is a joke when it comes to fiscal policy. Only question I have is whether the DEMs (sans Clinton) would be any better.

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 

So what? We're not in the black, so that's an academic point.

Over the last fifty years, the Democrats have been much better. It's not even close.