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-   -   Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years! (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=885)

Tyrone Slothrop 02-07-2022 11:49 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532312)
Get used to staffing issues. They’re bad everywhere. But if we’re the old Soviet Republic, your state is Pripyat.
Since you're such an expert on California, why don't you tell us all how much it cost California to save those 50,000 lives?

Quote:
The rest of humanity is moving on. And I’m closer to HC management than you (I was in a HC office dealing with non-mask wearers back in 2020, and I got the fucking thing, so sing your song elsewhere).
Given what my wife does, I'm pretty sure that's false, but that hasn't stopped you yet.

Quote:
And we don’t care about your judgment. No one does. But you. There. Which is partly why everyone is leaving.
I'll believe that when the real estate prices here are more like Eastern Pennsylvania.

sebastian_dangerfield 02-08-2022 12:15 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532314)
Since you're such an expert on California, why don't you tell us all how much it cost California to save those 50,000 lives?



Given what my wife does, I'm pretty sure that's false, but that hasn't stopped you yet.



I'll believe that when the real estate prices here are more like Eastern Pennsylvania.
Too much; you were in her office?; you’re in a flight state.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-08-2022 09:40 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532306)
IT IS NOT TRUE that when an adult doesn't get vaccinated, they pose a risk solely to themselves. They infect other people. They demand health-care resources. THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT. That's why I said, the problem with your little spiel about wearing a mask was missing the point -- you wear a mask to protect other people. Pull your head out of your libertarian ass and accept that the decisions people make about their health affect other people too -- you can't just wave your hands and imagine it away.
I had surgery just before Christmas and had about 5 days in the Hospital during recover. All private rooms were reserved for COVID patients, so I had a roomie. My roomie's wife, who visited, was unvaccinated (he described her as a loon, he apologized, but she still visited). She took off her mask, in a room where two of us were recovering from significant surgery. (My sister has officially named her "the Fucktard", and when we talk of her, that is now her name). So we got a hotel room next to the hospital where they literally wheeled me over to my room and I checked out 48 hours early and my wife and sister (who is an NP) and niece took care of me.

I've had stuff postponed, I've had appointments shifted, I've had important things that needed to be put off three weeks when they should have occurred immediately, all because of the unvaccinated Fuckwads.

SEBBY, if you think these Fuckwads are only affecting themselves, your head is totally up your ass. Pull it out, open your eyes, scrape the shit off them, and look at the world.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-08-2022 09:48 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532315)
Too much; you were in her office?; you’re in a flight state.
https://www.census.gov/dataviz/visualizations/043/

You spend way too much time listening to moronic memes. PA's pop growth is lower than CA.

The only reason California isn't growing faster is because of real estate prices, which are the cost of its success.

Sure, a few tech bros try to redomicile to Texas to play games with their taxes, but guess what - they usually don't sell the California house and they tend to live in California about 170 days out of the year - tax games. And they can hire up some folks in Austin or Houston, but the mothership in California never really slows down.

Adder 02-08-2022 11:16 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532312)
Get used to staffing issues. They’re bad everywhere. But if we’re the old Soviet Republic, your state is Pripyat.

The delta between transmissible load among unvaccinated and vaccinated is minimal. Right now, as to B.2 and Omicron Classic, it’s a difference of 29% household infection and 39%. And B.2 is even weaker.

The rest of humanity is moving on. And I’m closer to HC management than you (I was in a HC office dealing with non-mask wearers back in 2020, and I got the fucking thing, so sing your song elsewhere). You’re free to stay nuts, and good for you. You do you, the rest of us will do us.

And we don’t care about your judgment. No one does. But you. There. Which is partly why everyone is leaving.
One would think that having contracted the thing would lead to less confidence about the correctness of one's personal choices, and yet...

Anyway, kid was exposed for the second time at preschool, leading to a fever and sore throat, but negative Covis and strep tests. Whatever that means.

sebastian_dangerfield 02-08-2022 12:28 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
https://www.census.gov/dataviz/visualizations/043/

You spend way too much time listening to moronic memes. PA's pop growth is lower than CA.
Of course it is. Did I say it wasn't?

Quote:
The only reason California isn't growing faster is because of real estate prices, which are the cost of its success.
I doubted the data on CA flight myself. But if one asks the actual residents, the story holds. About 30% of my friends from college live in LA or SF areas. About 75% of them are moving.

If you visit Utah, Colorado, Oregon, or Arizona, the locals sing the same song: "Californians are buying everything, and living year round." The ski towns are now having to grapple with massive year round population increases.

WFH changed the game. And it's just getting started.

sebastian_dangerfield 02-08-2022 12:39 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532306)
IT IS NOT TRUE that when an adult doesn't get vaccinated, they pose a risk solely to themselves. They infect other people. They demand health-care resources. THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT. That's why I said, the problem with your little spiel about wearing a mask was missing the point -- you wear a mask to protect other people. Pull your head out of your libertarian ass and accept that the decisions people make about their health affect other people too -- you can't just wave your hands and imagine it away.
If the vulnerable avoid public settings, they decrease their chance of contracting the virus. This is indisputable.

The interests here are those of the vulnerable and the HC system, on one hand, and those of the rest of society that can go about their lives normally, on the other.

To balance them there has to be a policy that:

1. Allows people to visit establishments in which masking cannot be done effectively (restaurants, bars, anywhere one eats or drinks);
2. Provides protections for the vulnerable and limits transmission in other settings.

OK. So it really comes down to policy regarding bars, restaurants, clubs, gyms, and other places where masking cannot be done all the time.

I would advocate the following:

1. Vaccine cards for admission, barring admission of the intentionally unvaccinated;
2. Warnings to the vulnerable, who should be allowed to enter if they chose to take the risk, that there is a chance they will contract the virus within the place.

This seems sane.

sebastian_dangerfield 02-08-2022 12:54 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532316)
I had surgery just before Christmas and had about 5 days in the Hospital during recover. All private rooms were reserved for COVID patients, so I had a roomie. My roomie's wife, who visited, was unvaccinated (he described her as a loon, he apologized, but she still visited). She took off her mask, in a room where two of us were recovering from significant surgery. (My sister has officially named her "the Fucktard", and when we talk of her, that is now her name). So we got a hotel room next to the hospital where they literally wheeled me over to my room and I checked out 48 hours early and my wife and sister (who is an NP) and niece took care of me.

I've had stuff postponed, I've had appointments shifted, I've had important things that needed to be put off three weeks when they should have occurred immediately, all because of the unvaccinated Fuckwads.

SEBBY, if you think these Fuckwads are only affecting themselves, your head is totally up your ass. Pull it out, open your eyes, scrape the shit off them, and look at the world.
The indirect negative impacts on HC delivery are significant. People in hospitals are vulnerable. I agree that the unvaccinated are causing harm to people who are compromised, and they are taxing the HC system.

But this brings us back to the balancing. The overwhelming majority of people are not compromised, and not in the hospital, and are vaccinated. So you have the interests of Group A (the vulnerable, the involuntarily unvaccinated, and the intentionally unvaccinated), which is, let's say, 30% of society. Then you have Group B (the vaccinated), the other 70%.

I would say, rather than carp about mandates:

1. The intentionally unvaccinated be given lowest rung status in all health care systems (you didn't get the vaccine? enjoy the waiting room... you get a room only if we have one after all the responsible people receive care).
2. Insurers be allowed to deny coverage, or apply steep co-pays, for care provided as a result of an intentional decision to not be vaccinated.
3. Vaccine cards be required at all indoor settings. No exceptions.

You don't want the vaccine? Okay. We won't make you get it. But we'll put you on an island.

This would allow the 70% to go about their lives while protecting the vulnerable.

sebastian_dangerfield 02-08-2022 12:59 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Ty:

1. Do you think people should be able to eat in restaurants, go to concerts, or go to bars (all being indoor)?
2. If you think so, what would be the precautions you would prescribe?
3. If not, when do you think people should be able to do those things?
4. If not, what metrics, what standard, would you require before you would allow people to resume doing those things?

Adder 02-08-2022 01:19 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532319)
I doubted the data on CA flight myself. But if one asks the actual residents, the story holds. About 30% of my friends from college live in LA or SF areas. About 75% of them are moving. .
How many are having trouble selling their house?

Tyrone Slothrop 02-08-2022 04:57 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532315)
Too much; you were in her office?; you’re in a flight state.
Like Yogi Berra said, nobody goes there anymore. It got too crowded.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-08-2022 05:00 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532320)
If the vulnerable avoid public settings, they decrease their chance of contracting the virus. This is indisputable.

The interests here are those of the vulnerable and the HC system, on one hand, and those of the rest of society that can go about their lives normally, on the other.

To balance them there has to be a policy that:

1. Allows people to visit establishments in which masking cannot be done effectively (restaurants, bars, anywhere one eats or drinks);
2. Provides protections for the vulnerable and limits transmission in other settings.

OK. So it really comes down to policy regarding bars, restaurants, clubs, gyms, and other places where masking cannot be done all the time.

I would advocate the following:

1. Vaccine cards for admission, barring admission of the intentionally unvaccinated;
2. Warnings to the vulnerable, who should be allowed to enter if they chose to take the risk, that there is a chance they will contract the virus within the place.

This seems sane.
This describes how it worked when we went to the Monterey Bay Aquarium last weekend (narrator: In California). There are states which are making it illegal to require vaccine cards for admission. They are run by conservatives.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-08-2022 05:08 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532322)
Ty:

1. Do you think people should be able to eat in restaurants, go to concerts, or go to bars (all being indoor)?
Under what circumstances? I have done all three in the last six months. I wouldn't have done any in late December.

Quote:
2. If you think so, what would be the precautions you would prescribe?
I've got to be honest, I paid a lot of attention to the research about how people were getting infected early in the pandemic, and I just don't anymore. It's exhausting. I want public-health officials to set ground rules, and I want people to follow them. If I hear something from my wife that makes me uncomfortable, say, eating out even though the county is permitting it, I can opt out, and that's our call, and I'm not going to bitch about the county.

Quote:
3. If not, when do you think people should be able to do those things?
When the public-health professionals say it's a good idea.

Quote:
4. If not, what metrics, what standard, would you require before you would allow people to resume doing those things?
When the public-health professionals say it's a good idea.

Predictably, if you let everyone make their own decision about something with substantial externalities, they will make a decision that suits themselves but is bad in aggregate. So I'm not OK with letting everyone decide for themselves. See also: speed limits, traffic lights, food safety, childhood vaccinations, etc.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-09-2022 11:40 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532322)
Ty:

1. Do you think people should be able to eat in restaurants, go to concerts, or go to bars (all being indoor)?
2. If you think so, what would be the precautions you would prescribe?
3. If not, when do you think people should be able to do those things?
4. If not, what metrics, what standard, would you require before you would allow people to resume doing those things?
Isn't the easy answer here that there should be metrics, but they should be developed by actual experts and not by the loudest asshole out there? I really don't give a shit what YOU think the metrics should be. I don't care what Ty thinks either. Suck it up, buttercup.

I've been in the position of trying to organize concerts for organizations whose board I'm on. Our approach has been to consistently look to do better than the venue and the requirements, because it gives people comfort. If you do a concert, and you aren't careful, expect some people to walk in, feel unsafe, and walk out, and realize that may include people who are part of the performers and the stage crew. And any concert you schedule right now has risk of a last minute cancelation, which carries a lot of costs and overhead to it, because the performers may get sick. Saying "go ahead, do it" is very different than making it possible to do an event safely, which requires a certain amount of support, including devoting public resources to the process (because every event needs more security and police help thanks to, you know, THE ASSHOLES).


Badly run big events can quickly become superspreaders.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-09-2022 11:47 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532321)
The indirect negative impacts on HC delivery are significant. People in hospitals are vulnerable. I agree that the unvaccinated are causing harm to people who are compromised, and they are taxing the HC system.

But this brings us back to the balancing. The overwhelming majority of people are not compromised, and not in the hospital, and are vaccinated. So you have the interests of Group A (the vulnerable, the involuntarily unvaccinated, and the intentionally unvaccinated), which is, let's say, 30% of society. Then you have Group B (the vaccinated), the other 70%.

I would say, rather than carp about mandates:

1. The intentionally unvaccinated be given lowest rung status in all health care systems (you didn't get the vaccine? enjoy the waiting room... you get a room only if we have one after all the responsible people receive care).
2. Insurers be allowed to deny coverage, or apply steep co-pays, for care provided as a result of an intentional decision to not be vaccinated.
3. Vaccine cards be required at all indoor settings. No exceptions.

You don't want the vaccine? Okay. We won't make you get it. But we'll put you on an island.

This would allow the 70% to go about their lives while protecting the vulnerable.
You're the person carping (whining, really) about mandates. Really, why not just suck it up, it's not a big deal to put on a mask.


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