Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

Thoughts anyone?

I'm not sure why, but for some reason this makes me happy.

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

I think I should buy stock in Boeing.

It's not a big-picture surprise. I wasn't following the polling, but it has for years seemed incomprehensible to me that Europe, with all its separate histories, would be able to form a true union that goes beyond the merely economic. It's not like the US, which was able to form by the happenstance of growing out of the colonization by a single country, with a lot of common beliefs and fundamentally a shared history and culture.

Can you imagine trying to form the US today, though? Even if it weren't state by state, but say by region? I don't think it would happen. Instead it would be a loose confederation of economic territories sharing certain common interests. E.g., new england, mid atlantic, south, midwest, farm belt, rockies, california (actually, probably 2-3 separate states there), northwest. who knows exactly how it would work, but I don't think it could combine as it is.

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

I had similar thoughts. Question is, where do they go from here? This seems to cement the survival of the pound.

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

I think the idea of Europe ran away with itself, especially with the end of the Cold War and with the push for a form of diversity. The former resulted in Eastern Bloc countries pushing to join what had been a club of mostly wealthy countries -- bringing very different histories, economic needs, and political perspectives. The latter led to Turkey pushing to join, a development that France in particular opposes because of the enormous cultural, demographic, and economic issues that would pose.*

Ultimately I think Europe will be stronger if it keeps its focus on maintaining and promoting an economic union, one that in particular maximizes trade opportunities for the former Eastern Bloc countries.


*Which is interesting, because if you read this board you would think that France is dominated by radical Muslim clerics.

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

I don't see why they have to go anywhere other than the same place. Is it necessary to have the constitution? It seems that the countries are ready for economic unification, but not necessarily social policy integration. Seems like a reasonable balance--perhaps not the best one, but who am I to say what's best for Europe or France?

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

Hi! I finally found you guys. How come you left me on infirm with all the wackjobs?

Anyway, to answer your question, your happy because it fuels your anti-European, anti-human rights sense of imperialism. But don't count your chickens before they are hatched, cuz this is the latest nail in the coffin of a westernized judeo-christian Europe and a further move towards the ultimate reclamation of the continent by the Muslims. Which is your worst nightmare.

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

This is the future Burgerboy, get ready for it.

Sorry, Flinty, nothing personal
 

I have picked that book up intending to buy it at least ten times. I haven't though, and its because even I can't handle a vision as bleak as Harris'. I don't think I'm going anywhere when I die, and I don't buy any religion. But I can't imagine a world in which everybody just shrugged and said "Yep, this is it. This is all you'll ever know." We'd have a lot of fucked up people around doing some incredibly fucked up things. I think faith is an informed decision to reject the pointlessness of it all. Some folks can't deal with the fact that its all random and inconsequential. Even if I don't agree, I have to admit, their belief is sort of encouraging. They're something sort of laudable about a person really earnestly wanting to be more than he is, and actually beleiving he is more than he is. So I guess I won't pick on the faithful so much anymore. I get it, even if I don't buy it. Like Lennon said, "Whatever gets [them] through the night, its allright..."

Sorry, Flinty, nothing personal
 

But there can be downsides. Like somehting convinced GGG that over 3300 of his thoughts were valuable enough to share.

Sorry, Flinty, nothing personal
 

If Sebby says that, it must be a pretty bleak vision indeed.

Sorry, Flinty, nothing personal
 

Nope. They're doing evil. No 72 virgins for them.

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

I believe this is just a speed bump on the road to European unity. The polling showed that most of the French are for a Constitution, but it just needs to be rewritten. I think they are worried by two things. 1) The union forcing a neo-liberal (as they like to say "Anglo") economic system. Which will make them too much like the United States (God forbid) and flood their country with cheap labour destroying their social safety net. 2) Turkey - since most French envision a much tighter union that goes beyond just Economics they don't want Turkey in. The British, who see a loose European confederation, don't mind Turkey so much.

Europe needs to unify it is even going to have half a chance to keep up with the US in the near future, and China and India in the far flung future. At a certain point Economic unity also requires social integration (especially for socialist leaning nations).

Sorry, Flinty, nothing personal
 

Actually, he argues that without faith, morality and ethics (and more moral world) has a better future. It is not all that bleak. Although I don't agree with everything he says, he does a really good job of sumarizing the current trends in philisophical thought.

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

It's not necessary to have a constitution, but I think it facilitates some of the stated goals (which I think are pipe dreams), including providing collective armed forces to rival those of the US.

Thoughts on the No Vote?
 

Nice try troll boy