The Bush Legacy
 

The Rs embraced judicial activism with Bush v. Gore. This one's just a footnote.

The Bush Legacy
 

Actually that was stopping judicial activism, but thanks for playing!

The Bush Legacy
 

Certainly more important than principle. Other than a strong national defense*, one wonders just what the Republican Party stands for these days.

* With a carve-out for taking care of wounded veterans.

The Bush Legacy
 

Tax cuts.

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

I respect that the courts have examined the Schiavo issue but this situation is unusual. First, we may have some flawed legislation on the guardianship issue. Maybe. But we definitely have major issues here: the hubby is essentially remarried and is in essence, the only true testifier of what the wife's wishes would be, Teri Schiavo is only on a feeding tube and most people who say "I don't want to be kept alive by machines/artificially" are thinking breathing/heart machines and Karen Quinlan; most people in the "unplug the machine" situation are comatose whereas this lady is awake, smiling at her parents and her eyes light up when she sees them. In my mind, definitely worth more attention especially since Teri does not appear to be suffering pain (except when she is denied water in the middle of the latest pissing matches between Repubs and Dems).

On another note, I read somewhere that a "tycoon" (I'd love for someone to define that for me. Barring that, I'd like to be one) offered a boatload of money to the husband to hand over guardianship to the wife's parents. If that is true, the financial motive for wanting the tube out seems flimsy.

"The Form"
 

Depends on the state. Go to your state's Medical Society (Texas's information is here) and look up "Directive" or "Natural Death Act") I'm putting together a list of resources for another site, so if you need information on your state, let me know and I'll probably have it in about an hour.

The Bush Legacy
 

True. You got there before I could edit my post.

"The Form"
 

We should create a new thread - under the Fashion Board, since it appears to be dead today. (Ba dum bum.)

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

So 11 courts reviewing didn't give enough attention to the issue?

"The Form"
 

Including the present circumstances, no doubt. I suspect Hank would agree.

If you search "healthcare proxy" and your state, several will pop up. Please note that if there are questions about your mental competance, you may need to have a guardian sign for you.

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

Even flimsier when you realize, as was pointed out earlier, that most of the money has gone to the hubby's lawyers. He won't see very much.

As for Ms. Schiavo being "awake, smiling at her parents and her eyes light up when she sees them", we went over this last week. The consensus among doctors in the field, including those who have examined her, is that these are at best autonomic reflexes and that her cerebral cortex is gone. For all intensive purposes, she is brain dead and there is no hope of recovery.

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

Her "eyes light up"? WTF are you ON? How can you tell that she is suffering pain when denied water? Have you watched unedited videotapes?

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

I thought this discussion was started over at Lawyers With Kids, so I replied to your query there, but I'll cross post b/c this seems like a better forum for the discussion. Here's a good summary of the case to date. It includes links to the court holdings so far, in case you want to read up on the exact findings by the courts.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

I think her husband has carried the fight for guardianship on out of an honest belief that this is what she would have wanted. That takes a lot of courage when there are people out there ready to vilify him for his own personal life and his beliefs. He's lived a long time with this.

The Bush Legacy
 

What it stands for and what the sheep think it stands for just shows how dumb the sheep are. The blind followers, also known as Slave, are the people who drive me nuts. At least Bilmore is capable of being objective. Many of these sheep are highly intelligent people who refuse to look objectively. They first look to liberal opposition of the issue before analyzing the actual issue. My dead grandfather, founding father of his town's Republican Party, would be embarrassed at the direction current "Republicans" are taking this country.



Vote Libertarian!

"The Form"
 

Geez, this is way fucking harder than people keep saying. And I have to pay for it??? Christ, what a pita.

The Bush Legacy
 

I was agreeing with GiGi, and expressing amazement that this continuing and apparent process has resulted in an R presidency, along with control of both houses.

"The Form"
 

Was this intentional? B/c it's a great saying.

The Bush Legacy
 

mmmm sheep......

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

I am curious about your reasoning. Why flawed? Who should be the presumptive medical guardian of a married adult living outside the home? I haven't taken a poll, but I suspect that most married folks would want/expect their spouses to be in that role.

Does it affect the analysis that he began the new relationship ("abandoned his marriage" as stated in the pleading Burger linked) more than _five years_ after his wife entered the "persistent vegetative state"? That he first began to dispute her treatment with her parents more than _three years_ after his wife entered that persistent vegetative state?

How long must he sit by the bedside and mourn?

So her parents say. But -- its been just over _fifteen_ years, and they're still saying that the miracle will bring her back. The pleading also complains that the husband denied their efforts to wheel Terri into church for Mass. [They also complain that he wants to cremate her rather than bury her ("in violation of her religion"). Baloney -- Catholics are frequently cremated.)

Also -- they aren't sliding cheeseburgers and milkshakes down that tube. Keeping someone alive via artificial nutrition and hydration requires sophisticated monitoring and maintenance. it is not trivial.

The figure in the news reports was $ 1 million. Some loony rich Briton.

S_A_M

"The Form"
 

"Pita"?

I could send you our Health Care Durable Power of Attorney form, but they'd have to ship you to Minnesota before unplugging you, I think.

"The Form"
 

"Christ, what a pain in the ass" is original to me. Please send royalties.

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

Hint: that "news report" was filed by a "reporter" who actually is under contract with the White House.

caveat: I've heard nothing to support the rumor that Pixar also helped animate her.

The Bush Legacy
 

It's one thing when Fringie does this. We know she's just hungry.

The Bush Legacy
 

Are you implying that they each look to sheep to satisfy different primal hungers?

The Bush Legacy
 

Ewe?

That's just baaaaaaaaaad.

BOTD.

You were making a sheep joke, right?

The Bush Legacy
 

mmmm ewe mmmmmmmmm

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

Yes, I posted first on LWK b/c I was thinking of it in terms of a parent's fight for the life of and/or guardianship over their child. I agree, it's a better place here to talk about it. I guess I am less apt than Replaced Texan to leave alone a court ruling where there has not been a specific living will and also it is unclear what people mean when they say they don't want to be kept alive by artificial means. If I break the bones in all my body, I'd expect the drink of water to be brought to me even though I can't reach it myself even if though someone else's fetching might be "artificial." I am not comfortable with people (even judges, those extra smart people I'm sure) interpreting what someone's comments meant in the context of the law. Especially where it seems most people make these statements thinking breathing and heart pumping machines, not a tube with liquids.

The Bush Legacy
 

It's mutton when it's food, Hank. And I prefer lamb. Or steak.

The Bush Legacy
 

I was, but decided it was just so horrible I had to either spell it to hit people over the head or delete it. I deleted. But I was too slow.

"The Form"
 

*sigh* this is fucking not easy. the one I have found for my current state is $5 and has to be mailed to me. My family lives in states that are not my state.

Since the feds are taking over, and your party is the feds now, can you have them just legislate this completely? Total preemption. Thanks!

ETA hank, don't do it to the lambs. They're innocent children.

The Bush Legacy
 

He knew that. Food wasn't on his mind.

The Bush Legacy
 

See above re: innocent little lambs eating ivy.

"The Form"
 

Looks like they're trying that already.

"The Form"
 

No, I need a federalized form. For ease of administration. Can't we make this part of ERISA?

The Bush Legacy
 

(emphasis added)

Most of the federal judges in Florida -- including the unfortunate one who drew the short straw and got stuck with this case -- were picked by a committee made up of a panel of lawyers jointly appointed by Senators Bob Graham (D) and Connie Mack (R). Bush I and Clinton pretty much appointed whomever this panel picked. When Connie Mack retired and Democrat Bill Nelson took his seat, I think that Mack's role in judicial appointments was filled by Bill Young, the senior Republican in the Florida U.S. congressional delegation.

The judges that were appointed in the Middle District under this plan have been pretty solid non-political types -- I don't think that Judge Whittemore qualifies as a Clintonista. And the Eleventh Circuit (which will surely find itself dealing with this case soon) is pretty much made up of Republican appointees.

I missed it. I was too hungover

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

My impression is that the issue is less about the courts interpreting what her comments meant and what circumstances she thought they applied to, and more about who appropriately should make that interpretation if there is a difference of opinion.

Having a neurotic, meddling mother myself, I agree whole-heartedly with the common law position that, unless there is specific direction otherwise, that person is one's spouse (whom one chose, after all, unlike one's parents). Incidentally, while I have made that abundantly clear to all and sundry (including my T&E lawyer), I haven't signed the form yet, either. However, I'm less worried about my mother trying to keep me around for years so she can read me self-help books and style my hair badly while I turn into liquified goo than I am about an ugly confrontation over who is in charge. Which is, really, worse, since that hurts the conscious.

You are all on notice - unless I can by some means communicate "don't pull that plug muthafucker," I want you to pull the plug.

BR(after the organ harvesting, of course)C

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

I would like the feeding tube pulled too, not just the plug. I think feeding tubes are frequently, if not always, operated manually, though this is based on one extended ICU experience only. Of a person who was expected either to die in fairly short order, or recover pretty much completely.

And I would like as much pain medication as possible, even if no one is sure that I am feeling pain. Don't worry about it shortening my life or making me addicted.

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

The IPod, however, should remain attached.

Quality Control at CBSNews.com
 

Thanks for reminding me. I need to update my DPOA to make this explicit.