I don't get the bid deal.
 

Bush Peed, People Died!!!!

I don't get the bid deal.
 

That's exactly it. Where is Ty to defend the relevancy of this photo?

I don't get the bid deal.
 

As someone who had to suffer through a deposition today conducted by a guy who apparently was wearing Depends or using "the hunter's helper" or something like it (thank God the court reporter finally simply stopped typing and got up and left the room -- if I had heard that bastard say "I'll be at a good breaking point in a few minutes" one more time, I would have killed him), I have a great deal of sympathy for the President. It's not a big deal.

What it is is amusing to some people. Like how it was "funny" that his father got food poisoning in Japan, and it was captured on film. Or like how it was funny that a possibly rabid rabbit jumped into Jimmy Carter's canoe, and the poor guy flailed about trying not to get bitten.

Ok, the Carter thing *was* kinda funny. Food poisoning isn't, though. And -- after today with Depends Boy -- too much coffee, a boring droning speach, and no breaks isn't all that funny to me.

I don't get the bid deal.
 

"Look at the above piece of sub-human filth, I wonder if the average kool-aid intoxicated Dean disciple of the left came upon a situation where they found both President George W. Bush and the ululating Palestinian whore above trapped in the e coli stew of New Orleans. Only one can be saved and the other would die. Which one would the leftie save?

I am betting the terror loving bee-yotch."

Wow. To put it into some perspective, he [Penske] was Penske's age now when he uttered that.

Exclusionary Rule
 

I understand why people don't like it, but what are you prepared to do to ensure that law enforcement respects defendants' constitutional rights?

I don't get the bid deal.
 

I already took responsibility for all that stuff. Why do you keep harping about it? Move on.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Set up a system used by every other civilized country whereby if the cops infringe on your rights there is some way to receive compensation from the police or the government.

If the cops screw up, the victim of the crime should not be penalized. The idea that probative evidence would be thrown out really only punishes the victim and not the police.

England doesn't have the exclusionary rule yet I have never heard that defendants rights are abused all the time or that their system is completely unfair.

Our system does not put enough focus on the truth.

Exclusionary Rule
 

I agree with this as a general rule, but what about crimes where there are no "victims"? And believe me, I am all for law enforcement, but I've seen the police pull some pretty egregious shit simply because they are either too lazy to conduct a proper investigation, or they can't be bothered to get a warrant.

Exclusionary Rule
 

So if the cops search your house for pot unlawfully you get off, but if they search it for a murder weapon, you have only an action at damages?

IF the crime is victimless, why even make it a crime?

Exclusionary Rule
 

I didn't say it was workable, but I understand his point, at least in the abstract.

Excellent. Under this reasoning, can we abolish speed limits too?

Too funny! I saw the picture on the front page of the Washington Times this morning of Bush, Bolton and Rice at the U.N. where Bush is siting in front with his hand raised (presumably voting).

My thought on seeing the picture was that it looked like a high school student seeking permission to go to the John. Everything about his posture and expression said -- "Boy, this class sucks."

S_A_M

I don't get the bid deal.
 

Plus, Bush's fine leadership has also inspired Blanco to accept responsibility for screw-ups at the State level. She is far more likely to actually be held accountable.

S_A_M

I don't get the bid deal.
 

Bush Went For A Wank While New Orleans Sank.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Under that definition of "victimless" we could eliminate all attempted crimes.

Are there victimless crimes other than illicit drug use?

Exclusionary Rule
 

Of course, the Brits have been bending over and taking it from authority for nearly 1000 years.

Exclusionary Rule
 

How about attempted rape by Ironweed, given his erectile problems?

Exclusionary Rule
 

Public Intoxication? Unless having to be around annoying drunk people constitutes harm. In which case, I should sue Barney's Beanery.

I know, similar to illicit drug use.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Presumably more harm than private intoxication, which is not a crime.

If I have to be more clear, I might say that illicit drug use not in public is a victimless crime.

I guess another one is sodomy and other immoral sexual acts, at least when involving consenting adults (adult humans, penske). Again, though, not so much if it's in public (whether immoral or not).

Exclusionary Rule
 

Sometimes those "immoral sexual acts" disturb ABBA's neighbors.

Exclusionary Rule
 

There are noise laws. Nothing against them.

We interrupt this discussion of the exclusionary rule
 

... to observe Sen. Coburn's extensive preparation for the Roberts hearings.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/duncan...oburncross.jpg

Now that the questioning has ended, we'll be able to devote our full attentions to 24 Across.

Gattigap

Exclusionary Rule
 

I am too disturbed by your blithely accepting use of the term "immoral" to absorb this.

Exclusionary Rule
 

I tell a little white lie to save your mom's feelings and it gets thrown back in my face on a public messageboard. Nice.

We interrupt this discussion of the exclusionary rule
 

Pretty funny. While I'm sure many of us would happily deal with it, I can't imagine a greater challenge than trying to pay attention and appear engaged during the 3 hours plus of opening statements that Roberts had to endure before he even gave his opening statement.

Exclusionary Rule
 

just using a legal term of art. does unconscionable and jus tertii also get you in a lather.

Exclusionary Rule
 

What I don't get is why someone who supposedly favors limited government is willing to grant unbridled authority to the police.

Exclusionary Rule
 

I wondered about that too. I'm all for punishments to the police for illegal searches, but it sounds like a fine that wouldn't really deter action -- it would just be a cost of doing business that would be absorbed by the market. If you really want to get a presumed perpetrator, why not do an illegal search to get evidence, if all you have to do is pay a fine?

Exclusionary Rule
 

Why not? If the taxpayers are willing (ultimately) to pay the costs for illegal searches, so what? Presumably someone will get the message and tell the police chief he could do the job a lot more cheaply if he actually went to the magistrate to get a warrant. And, also, figure out that breaking down doors randomly will actually cost a lot of money (it's not like the illegal searches that don't turn stuff up ever get litigated).

This isn't coerced confessions. Illegally seized evidence isn't unreliable; indeed, it's too reliable, which is why there's such a fight over its admission.

If there's a problem, it's determining what the damages are, not only to the plaintiff but also to all other citizens who presumably lose a little something because of the fear they're no longer secure in their homes.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Why does it increase their authority? The search is still illegal; it's just a question of the penalty. Under the current rule, the penalty is that the criminal goes free (or at least is harder to convict). The criminal wins and society loses. Under the alternative, the penalty is that the police department pays damages of some amount, the criminal is more likely to be convicted, and society penalizes the criminal.

In either case, the costs of illegal searches are ultimately borne by society. In one case it's by letting criminals go free because they happened to be subject to an illegal search. In the other, it's putting them in jail, but paying a price for sloppy enforcement. I don't see how the latter is unambiguously worse for everyone involved. The only person who's clearly worse off is the criminal.

Exclusionary Rule
 

I view constitutional rights differently. We're supposed to be free from illegal searches. That freedom means little if you're sitting in jail, whether or not the police pay a fine.

Exclusionary Rule
 

They end up calculating that the security of their homes is worth, say, $25.46. Comforting, no?

I understand the crappy effects of the exclusionary rule, but I'm discomfited by the thought that this civil right is worth a particular dollar amount. If the government is willing to bear the cost, that civil right is gone.

(I know -- cue Kelo).

Exclusionary Rule
 

So, what you're saying is the only person who should benefit from the rule is the criminal. I, as a law abiding citizen, who might at some point be unlawfully searched, will get zero recompense.

With all rights we monetize past violations, because we can enjoin only future ones. In some cases this matters--for example, prior restraints on speech--but even then, you may be delayed in getting your message out (like Martha Burke, who missed the masters). In some cases it's express in the constitution--for example, the government can seize your property if it pays you. This extends to torts. I can't cut off your leg, but if I do, I have to pay you.

What you seem to be saying is that there is no amount of money damages that can adequately deter unlawful searches, such that the only way to deter them (and thus ensure the right is meaningful) is to let criminals go free. I think there is an amount of money damages. And, if a p.d. engages in a pattern of illegal searches, it would be relatively easy to bring a class action or something like it for injunctive relief commanding them to adhere to the law. Plaintiffs lawyers would start smelling the punis, and that police chief isout of town on a rail.

Exclusionary Rule
 

You're forgetting what the right is, though. The right is not to avoid jail. The right is to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures.

The exclusionary rule is not a way to implement the right. Instead, it's a tool used to deter violations of the right. You, like Shifter, are saying that the fines won't adequately deter. That may be right and may be wrong, but the answer is easy--higher fines.

If there were no sovereign immunity, every time an unreasonable search occured, there would be a potential law suit. Both from criminals and from the innocent. Juries would not know that the seizure ultimately turned up evidence (that would have to be the rule--the question is ex ante whether the search was reasonable). They would say "crap, police just bashing down doors because he's a black man with dreadlocks? that's b.s, let's give him $100k." P.d.s would get the message pretty quickly.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Didn't the case that extended the exclusionary rule to the states focus on the harm to the innocent? I remember a straw man of the bad white sheriff mistreating black people in the South.

I don't recall the case being too concerned with the rights of a murderer being impacted, it was just that the Court saw no other way to protect the rights of the innocent, but suspected.

Is my recollection wrong again?

Exclusionary Rule
 

I don't see how that would work. In most places, you're going to be in front of a judge who works with the police day in and day out. Juries are inclined to believe, or at least give the benefit of the doubt to, the police or anyone else acting under the color of authority. Moreoever, any damages the jury awards will ultimately come from their pocketbook.

We grant the police vast amounts of authority in order to keep us safe. I view the exclusionary rule as a reasonable limitation on that authority. So a few criminals go free? Big deal. Our criminal justice system does a good enough job overall, but mistakes are made every day. Easily, far more people plead out to crimes they did not commit than go free because of the exclusionary rule.

eta: P.S. I made a mistake on the FB thread title. It's Preston Michael, not Michael Preston. Would you mind changing it?

I don't get the bid deal.
 

I think that photo was new, no? Post-Ty responsibility day.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Doesn't the same apply to the rulings on the exclusionary rule? I certainly share your healthy doubt of authority, but judges hardly seem reluctant to bend over backwards to find ways to let evidence in under the current system. They might be more inclined to send a message to the police if they weren't letting murderers off.

I don't get the bid deal.
 

This is the stupidest post ever. I post a quote from your senator and conscience, the right racist Klan Kleagle and Grand Cyclops Bobby Byrd, spouting racist shite when he was past the age where youthful ignorance or immaturity can excuse. You compare and create an implicit equivalency between that and a post where I criticise the left for supporting people of such little human character as to applaud the mass murder by terror of 3000 Americans. I suppose this is to be expected as part of the left's continued attempt to excuse and/or rationalise the behaviour of the terrorists.

Anyway, congrats, I thought your "people who give to charity but not the charity of my choice are chumps" post was the stupidest post ever, but you beat your own record. I hope you are not using the juice to reach these new depths.

I don't get the bid deal.
 

You guys already presented the case that Bush is a moronic screw up, the jury of the electorate rejected it, by an overwhelming mandate. Now Blanko will face the same fire, and, I pray, that the righteous people of louisiania will make as good a decision relative to Blanko as the people of the US did related to Bush.

I don't get the bid deal.
 

You want Blanco reelected?