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-   -   Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=661)

bilmore 03-18-2005 12:14 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
. . . in searing, blinding, unending pain. Fucking Pharisees.
You must know more about this than me, I guess.

Or her doctors.

Replaced_Texan 03-18-2005 12:17 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Well, I know little about the substance of this one, so I've avoided it quite well, but it does strike me that, stopping a death, if you truly think an injustice is about to occur, might be an inappropriate time to worry about minority status.
Dunno why they still can't remove the feeding tube. If she's able to testify, she's able to feed herself in the week and a half until the hearing.

Shape Shifter 03-18-2005 12:19 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm vaguely familiar with the GOP stunts pulled during the Clinton term, and I think both practices are unconstitutional.
In his annual reports on the judiciary during the Clinton administration, Rehnquist called on Congress to knock it off. I didn't like it then and I don't really like it now, but you can't really blame the Dems for wanting payback.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-18-2005 12:23 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm vaguely familiar with the GOP stunts pulled during the Clinton term, and I think both practices are unconstitutional.
Do you believe in stare decisis?

The Senate has had rules to organize itself for ever. These rules sometimes prevent individual senators, or minority blocs, from thwarting the will of the majority. This was understood to be a feature of the British parliament long before we even had the Constitution -- it's a part of our constitutional tradition in that way.

Some people think all of this can be ignored if you want to overturn the apple cart badly enough to. But they are the opposite of "conservatives." What you are proposing would be the worst kind of judicial activism if a judge were doing it.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-18-2005 12:27 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
In his annual reports on the judiciary during the Clinton administration, Rehnquist called on Congress to knock it off. I didn't like it then and I don't really like it now, but you can't really blame the Dems for wanting payback.
If we could step back for a minute, we could probably agree that permitting the minority the power to block a few judges is probably a good idea, since it acts as a check and a balance upon the power of the majority. When this power is abused, it becomes a bad thing. Drawing that line is very difficult. In the past, this was less of a problem because appointments were somewhat less partisan, and because the perogatives of senators to have a hand in appointments for their own states were protected.

sgtclub 03-18-2005 12:30 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Do you believe in stare decisis?

The Senate has had rules to organize itself for ever. These rules sometimes prevent individual senators, or minority blocs, from thwarting the will of the majority. This was understood to be a feature of the British parliament long before we even had the Constitution -- it's a part of our constitutional tradition in that way.

Some people think all of this can be ignored if you want to overturn the apple cart badly enough to. But they are the opposite of "conservatives." What you are proposing would be the worst kind of judicial activism if a judge were doing it.
Senate rules are fine and all, but not if they are inconsistent with the Constitution, regardless of how long they have been in place. If we want to require 60 votes to approve a judicial nominee, that's fine, but let's first go through the process of amending the Constitution.

sgtclub 03-18-2005 12:31 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
In the past, this was less of a problem because appointments were somewhat less partisan
Cite please?

ltl/fb 03-18-2005 12:36 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Same people that wanted to cut Medicaid want to keep her alive. I don't understand these people.
It's the one individual sympathetic(ish) case vs. poor people leeching off the system.

Who is paying for her endless hospitalization?

bilmore 03-18-2005 01:05 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Who is paying for her endless hospitalization?
Pull out your pay stub . . .

ltl/fb 03-18-2005 01:05 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Pull out your pay stub . . .
She's on Medicaid?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-18-2005 01:09 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
stopping a death, if you truly think an injustice is about to occur, might be an inappropriate time to worry about minority status.
her case has gone to the Supreme Court at least once, and Florida's supreme court several times. Do you feel the same way about death penalty cases? Free mumia? Should Congress subpoena him so he can't be put to death?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-18-2005 01:10 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb

Who is paying for her endless hospitalization?
Presumably the hospital is eating the cost. Which is why i'd wheel her into the rotunda, with the life support equipment, plug it in, and tell Congress that their witness is ready to take questions from the Committee.

ltl/fb 03-18-2005 01:13 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Presumably the hospital is eating the cost. Which is why i'd wheel her into the rotunda, with the life support equipment, plug it in, and tell Congress that their witness is ready to take questions from the Committee.
For long-term care? It's either Medicaid, private insurance (lucky employer!) or the family. Hospitals tend to eat emergency care, not long-term. I think. RT can probably give accurate info on this.

Replaced_Texan 03-18-2005 01:13 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
She's on Medicaid?
:D The same Medicaid the same Senators tried to cut yesterday.

edited:

Maybe not

It's an old article, and her fund was down to $50,000 at the time of writing, so I don't know who's paying now.

ltl/fb 03-18-2005 01:16 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
:D The same Medicaid the same Senators tried to cut yesterday.
I'm sure they don't want it cut for *her* (or any other individual cases they know of). Just you know the waste should be cut. You know. There's gotta be waste.

Here's a good use of some fucker's money:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4339033.stm

(business man offered her husband $1 million not to take her off feeding tube)

Fucking irrational use of resources.

Yeah, blah blah, market.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-18-2005 01:16 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Senate rules are fine and all, but not if they are inconsistent with the Constitution, regardless of how long they have been in place. If we want to require 60 votes to approve a judicial nominee, that's fine, but let's first go through the process of amending the Constitution.
They're not requiring 60 votes to approve a nominee. They're requiring 60 votes to end debate.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-18-2005 01:17 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Cite please?
Bilmore, take us back to those rosy, long-lost days of comity and bipartisanship before the nation knew who Robert Bork was.

ltl/fb 03-18-2005 01:21 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
:D The same Medicaid the same Senators tried to cut yesterday.

edited:

Maybe not

It's an old article, and her fund was down to $50,000 at the time of writing, so I don't know who's paying now.
I didn't feel like registering for the philly paper, but found this http://www.law.uh.edu/healthlawpersp...29Schiavo.html which is about a year or so old, saying that both parties (husband, parents) agree she's on medicaid -- but the cost is pretty low, as medical care goes.

sgtclub 03-18-2005 01:25 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
They're not requiring 60 votes to approve a nominee. They're requiring 60 votes to end debate.
The practical effect is the same.

sgtclub 03-18-2005 01:26 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Bilmore, take us back to those rosy, long-lost days of comity and bipartisanship before the nation knew who Robert Bork was.
I guess he's forgotten about Abe Fortas

Replaced_Texan 03-18-2005 01:33 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I didn't feel like registering for the philly paper, but found this http://www.law.uh.edu/healthlawpersp...29Schiavo.html which is about a year or so old, saying that both parties (husband, parents) agree she's on medicaid -- but the cost is pretty low, as medical care goes.
This one from today confirms that it's generally free care at a hospice and Medicaid, though there is about $50k left from the malpractice suit.

ltl/fb 03-18-2005 01:38 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
This one from today confirms that it's generally free care at a hospice and Medicaid, though there is about $50k left from the malpractice suit.
What is with you and the registering sites?

Nothing is free -- someone's gotta be paying for it. TNSTAAFL.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-18-2005 01:46 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The practical effect is the same.
The practical effect of a lot of things is to thwart the will of a majority of senators, but that does not make those things unconstitutional, not when they are a part of a tradition of parliamentary rules that have been around since long before the Constitution was even drafted.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-18-2005 01:46 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I guess he's forgotten about Abe Fortas
I didn't say non-partisan, I said less partisan. I haven't forgotten about the switch in time that saved nine, either.

Hank Chinaski 03-18-2005 01:48 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The practical effect of a lot of things is to thwart the will of a majority of senators, but that does not make those things unconstitutional, not when they are a part of a tradition of parliamentary rules that have been around since long before the Constitution was even drafted.
and the fillibusters to prevent judicial votes is just a rule that the Senate had been saving up for some 200 odd years just waiting to try out?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-18-2005 01:53 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
and the fillibusters to prevent judicial votes is just a rule that the Senate had been saving up for some 200 odd years just waiting to try out?
has the rule ever had any exceptions?

bilmore 03-18-2005 02:00 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Do you feel the same way about death penalty cases?
Death penalty cases? Yeah, generally. There ain't no do-overs.
Quote:

Free mumia?
Socialist. The government can't do everything. Pay for your own mumias.

Replaced_Texan 03-18-2005 02:01 PM

State institution in jeaporday
 
Quote:

The "Bring-it...It's Been Brought'n" Bill
by A.S. Medellin, www.LaRazaUnida.com
Houston legislator Al Edwards returns to the news after submitting a bill to stop suggestive dancing by high school cheerleaders at school events. Under Edwards' bill, if a school district knowingly permits such a performance, funds from the state would be reduced in an amount to be determined by the education commissioner, according to the Chronicle.
Via Dos Centavos.

bilmore 03-18-2005 02:01 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
It's an old article, and her fund was down to $50,000 at the time of writing, so I don't know who's paying now.
Thiught I read her $$ were exhausted, which kicked in Medicare/aide (don't know the diff) and one argument was, with the payment responsibilities her hubby would then take on, that was one of his reasons for the push.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-18-2005 02:03 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
and the fillibusters to prevent judicial votes is just a rule that the Senate had been saving up for some 200 odd years just waiting to try out?
It would be fun to watch you try that sort of argument in a court. "Your Honor, I don't think the Supreme Court has ever addressed that argument in the context of a case brought by a man named Melvin, like my client."

Fillbusters have been around for ever. If they haven't been used on judicial nominees, it's only because the Senate had other rules that were used to block the up-or-down vote instead.

bilmore 03-18-2005 02:03 PM

State institution in jeaporday
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
The "Bring-it...It's Been Brought'n" Bill
by A.S. Medellin, www.LaRazaUnida.com
Houston legislator Al Edwards returns to the news after submitting a bill to stop suggestive dancing by high school cheerleaders at school events. Under Edwards' bill, if a school district knowingly permits such a performance, funds from the state would be reduced in an amount to be determined by the education commissioner, according to the Chronicle. [/url]

Via Dos Centavos.
They could make a movie about this!

bilmore 03-18-2005 02:04 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
If they haven't been used on judicial nominees, it's only because the Senate had other rules that were used to block the up-or-down vote instead.
To which rules are you referring? (Filibusters haven't been around "forever". As con law goes, they're only about middle-earth-era.)

ltl/fb 03-18-2005 02:05 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Thiught I read her $$ were exhausted, which kicked in Medicare/aide (don't know the diff) and one argument was, with the payment responsibilities her hubby would then take on, that was one of his reasons for the push.
If she's on Medicaid (Medicare is for old people -- so we expand it w/prescription drug coverage, but don't cut it), how would her husband suddenly have payment obligations he didn't have before? Are you swallowing the kool-aid they are spoon-feeding you?

bilmore 03-18-2005 02:06 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Thiught I read her $$ were exhausted, which kicked in Medicare/aide (don't know the diff) and one argument was, with the payment responsibilities her hubby would then take on, that was one of his reasons for the push.
Memory fade. What I really read was allegation that the hubby wants her dead before the tort settlement is gone, so he can have it.

bilmore 03-18-2005 02:07 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Are you swallowing the kool-aid they are spoon-feeding you?
mmmmm, kool-aid!

(No - I remembered it wrong. See above.)

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-18-2005 02:08 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Death penalty cases? Yeah, generally. There ain't no do-overs.
So why does Congress make every effort to prevent federal courts from taking any kind of jurisdiction over death penalty cases, yet rushes to create jurisdiction (of what sort I have no idea) to hear a case that is purely one of state law (what evidence of desire to die in specific circumstances is necessary) and has absolutely no federal constitutional dimension?

Gattigap 03-18-2005 02:08 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Memory fade. What I really read was allegation that the hubby wants her dead before the tort settlement is gone, so he can have it.
If the $1M settlement has dwindled to $50k, I'm not sure I follow how this argument is supposed to carry that much punch.

ltl/fb 03-18-2005 02:08 PM

a new low
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
mmmmm, kool-aid!

(No - I remembered it wrong. See above.)
There's at most $50k left in there. It's basically gone.

I think her parents want her alive because they love the media attention and hob-nobbing with people like the governor. The woman's brain is apparently liquified.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-18-2005 02:09 PM

The Truth Comes Out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
If they haven't been used on judicial nominees, it's only because the Senate had other rules that were used to block the up-or-down vote instead.
You mean, like that rule that permits 10 (or so) senators on a committee could prevent a nominee from coming to the floor at all by voting no?

Replaced_Texan 03-18-2005 02:09 PM

Heh.
 
Quote:

The Senate has approved drilling in Terri Schiavo by a vote of 51-49.

CORRECTION: The Senate has approved testing Terri Schiavo for steroids by a vote of 51-49.

CORRECTION 2: The Senate has approved drilling for steroids in ANWR by a vote of 51-49.

CORRECTION 3: Robert Blake has approved testing Terri Schiavo for steroids by a vote of 51-49.

CORRECTION 4: Robert Blake has found not guilty of murdering Terri Schiavo by a vote of 51-49.

CORRECTION 5: Scott Peterson has been sentenced to Robert Blake by a California judge.

CORRECTION 6: A California Superior Court judge has struck down a California law limiting marriage to heterosexual couples, allowing Scott Peterson to marry Robert Blake.

CORRECTION 7: Michael Jackson is drilling Terri Schiavo, says Hose Canseco.

CORRECTION 8: The Senate has tested positive for steroids, claims Jose Canseco.

CORRECTION 9: Robert Blake has removed Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.

CORRECTION 10: The Senate has approved feeding Terri Schiavo to Scott Peterson by a vote of 51-49.

CORRECTION 11: Jose Canseco's feeding tube has been removed by Terri Schiavo.

CORRECTION 12: Michael Jackson has been convicted of molesting Scott Peterson by a vote of 51-49.

CORRECTION 13: Scott Peterson has been found guilty of murdering the ANWR.

CORRECTION 14: A California Superior Court judge has struck down Michael Jackson for marrying performance-enhancing drugs.
From this blog is full of crap (not to be confused with World 'o Crap)


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