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-   -   Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=661)

ltl/fb 04-13-2005 08:42 PM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
After sidd sells his parents' house.

BTW, Ty, I posted that yesterday. (and it's present tense now)

And, spanky, if there's one thing that will get you into fringey's pants it's talking tax. Maybe you don't want to go there, but you probably don't want the cock-block rep.
Good to know my suspicions about your sudden interest in tax were correct.

FWIW, I would be fine with indexing the exemption to inflation. I would be fine with raising* it to $2m right off the bat, and then indexing it.

I think it's stupid to have it low because the transaction costs outweigh the benefit and it's a net drain on society.

I'm in favor of fucking imprisoning and putting to hard labor people who use iffy tax shelters promoted by fucking asshole overpaid consultants and their pet ethic-free lawyers. The promoters/lawyers can go with them. They deserve every goddamn ass-raping they get.

That is all for now.




*I'm assuming a world where EGTRAA (EGTRRA? fuck I'm tired) really does sunset in 2011, and talking post-2011.

chad87655 04-13-2005 08:53 PM

Will He Ever Let it Drop?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Well, here, the TRMPAC scandal is tied to nearly every single Republican in the Legislature.

To wit, today's victim.
Ha. You have to be kidding. The worm is turning here and the true core of the Republican party says bring it on!

The hypocritical double and triple standards of the liberals and their comrades in the leftwing media elite (and their additional RiNO fifth columnists) is nauseating, but each futile attempt to besmirch a honest patriot like Delay will bring a rightful retaliatory exposure of the Dimwits dishonest fleecing of the American public. Today's demo-loser is admitted socialist and Democrat party collaborator Bernie Sanders, a legislator who put family members on his payroll to the tune of $150k dollars from 2002 through 2004. QUESTIONS ABOUND!!

After that it is a short ideological step to Nancy Pelosi, the skeletons in her closet make those in fellow democrat John Wayne Gacy's pale.

With W at our helm we ain't sitting down for this fight like we did with Newt. You want to unjustly take Delay's scalp, its going to cost you. Big time.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-13-2005 10:32 PM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
The IRS doesn't accept payment in kind. Believe me on this one.
Sure enough, but you could fix this problem. Or your fire sale problem. Just make the tax due at 9 months, but allow people to claim a payment plan if the estate assets are substantially illiquid. Pay back over 5 years, say, at decent interest rate (so no free loans). Hardship mostly eliminated. Just because you can't sell it altogether doesn't mean Mars should be exempt.

Tyrone Slothrop 04-14-2005 02:08 AM

Orin Kerr is working hard to make Tom DeLay happy:
  • IMPEACH NINO: As every right-thinking person knows, the judiciary recently has run amok. It's high time we did something about it. I think the solution is clear: we need to impeach Justice Antonin Scalia.

    If you think about it, Justice Scalia is directly or indirectly responsible for many of the problems with the modern judiciary. Not only did Scalia personally fail to intervene in the Schiavo case, ignoring the will of Congress, but he has repeatedly urged judges to simply ignore Congressional intent. He refuses to cite legislative history, woodenly following the "text" rather than deferring to clear statements of what Congressional leaders intended to do. This kind of judicial hubris is simply unacceptable.

    Scalia is even worse in the area of constitutional interpretation. His activist opinions have invented new constitutional rights for marijuana growers, given thousands of convicted criminals a "get out of jail free" card, and tried to limit the President's ability to fight the war on terror. In addition, Scalia has relied heavily on foreign legal sources to interpret allegedly ambiguous provisions of the Bill of Rights (see part II.A). Indeed, Scalia's contempt for our system of Government is so great that he admits he wants to see the Constitution "dead."

    The American people deserve better than Scalia's satanic Marxist activism. It's time to impeach Nino.

The Volokh Conspiracy

Hank Chinaski 04-14-2005 09:22 AM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Sure enough, but you could fix this problem. Or your fire sale problem. Just make the tax due at 9 months, but allow people to claim a payment plan if the estate assets are substantially illiquid. Pay back over 5 years, say, at decent interest rate (so no free loans). Hardship mostly eliminated. Just because you can't sell it altogether doesn't mean Mars should be exempt.
No one likes to see a friend or relative die, however it can be a joy to receive an inheritance once they are gone. Make certain you understand the IRS regulations regarding inheritance so if you choose to sell off any numismatic holdings you acquire this way. You will want the liquidation of these holdings to also be a joy rather than a burden to you.

IRS Publication 551, Basis for Assets (revised in May 2002) addresses inherited property as well as that received as a gift. According to this publication, "Your basis in property you inherit from a decedent is generally one of the following: (1) The FMV [Full Market Value] of the property at the date of the individual's death. (2) The FMV on the alternative valuation date if the personal representative for the estate chooses to use alternative valuation. For information on the alternate valuation date see the instructions for Form 706."

In this area of the publication much more than numismatic inheritance is reviewed, but the two items presented here are the only comments having a direct impact on such numismatic items. The publication further states, "…If a federal estate tax return does not have to be filed, your basis in the inherited property is its appraised value at the date of death for state inheritance or transmission taxes."

There are situations under the current tax codes where due to the value of the estate no taxes were collected at the time of its disbursal. There may be taxes, however, if you choose to sell what you have inherited.

Numismatic Items or Bullion?
Another factor directly impacting taxes is if what you are about to sell is considered to be numismatic or bullion. 1984 Federal Register Vol. 49 No. 3 discusses this on page 645 through page 648.

According to this document, the regulation requires that coin dealers report all gold bullion liquidations on Form 1099. Coins with a premium above 15 percent do not have to be reported by dealers. (The important thing here is that the reference is to "dealers," not to "hobbyists." What the regulation is trying to do is to distinguish between what are bullion and what are collectible gold and silver coins.

On December 28, 1992 this law was amended to allow exceptions from Form 1099 reporting. According to this amendment, "A sale of a precious metal in a form that may be used to satisfy a CFTC-approved regulated futures contract, is an excepted sale, … provided the quantity … sold, is less than the minimum amount needed to satisfy a CFTC - approved contract, and in any form other than that which may be used to satisfy a CFTC - approved contract."

The "Reason to Believe" clause nullifies exceptions "if a broker has reason to know that a customer, either alone or together with a person related (related means more than just family) to the customer, is engaging in one or more sales with a principle purpose of avoiding information reporting" i.e. Form 1099s.

Conclusions
Although many numismatists, those receiving numismatic gifts, or those inheriting numismatic items may want to consult with their accountant or lawyer regarding tax implications and their legal options, this presentation should give an accurate portrayal of what may be necessary for your individual situation.

When selling your coins through Heritage you have options to consider. You may want payment checks to be endorsed to people to whom you wish to make a gift during your own lifetime, or to foundations or trust funds you have established for tax purposes, rather than directly to yourself. Discuss this with your Heritage account executive before you sign any agreements with us.

The sale of your numismatic possessions should be a time of satisfaction for you, regardless of if you assembled the collection yourself, were given them as a gift, or inherited them. Understanding the tax implications of your financial gains, and how to cope with these tax implications to your own best advantage, is important.

Hank Chinaski 04-14-2005 09:30 AM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
And, spanky, if there's one thing that will get you into fringey's pants it's talking tax.
Have you tried "Everything is in remission, I voted for Kerry and there's an empty stall in the Men's room right now?"

sgtclub 04-14-2005 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Orin Kerr is working hard to make Tom DeLay happy:
  • IMPEACH NINO: As every right-thinking person knows, the judiciary recently has run amok. It's high time we did something about it. I think the solution is clear: we need to impeach Justice Antonin Scalia.

    If you think about it, Justice Scalia is directly or indirectly responsible for many of the problems with the modern judiciary. Not only did Scalia personally fail to intervene in the Schiavo case, ignoring the will of Congress, but he has repeatedly urged judges to simply ignore Congressional intent. He refuses to cite legislative history, woodenly following the "text" rather than deferring to clear statements of what Congressional leaders intended to do. This kind of judicial hubris is simply unacceptable.

    Scalia is even worse in the area of constitutional interpretation. His activist opinions have invented new constitutional rights for marijuana growers, given thousands of convicted criminals a "get out of jail free" card, and tried to limit the President's ability to fight the war on terror. In addition, Scalia has relied heavily on foreign legal sources to interpret allegedly ambiguous provisions of the Bill of Rights (see part II.A). Indeed, Scalia's contempt for our system of Government is so great that he admits he wants to see the Constitution "dead."

    The American people deserve better than Scalia's satanic Marxist activism. It's time to impeach Nino.

The Volokh Conspiracy
Who is Orin Kerr?

taxwonk 04-14-2005 11:20 AM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The only thing I didn't understand that was in any way material to the discussion is the historic background for recognizing wills. Sue me. Everything else was probably interesting to the tax lawyers, but not germane to what we were discussing.

This is starting to feel like my conference call this morning, which ended in the corporate lawyers on both sides yelling at the tax lawyers for both sides to just give us the fucking answer. We don't want to know what fucking code section it is pursuant to, or how these types of deals use to be done pre the 1986 amendments. Just tell us whether or not the structure works.
I was specifically referring to your little snipe quoting from "A Few Good Men." It was gratuitous, obnnoxious, and based solely on the fact that you are clearly frustrated by what you don't understand. Like many corporate guys, you seem to be paralyzed by ambiguity.

I admit that many tax lawyers fall way short in the communication skills department. On the other hand, if you stopped viewing our practice so arrogantly, and took the effort to understand some of the subtleties and complexity, you might begin to develop an appreciation for the fact that a good corporate lawyer, with a good tax lawyer, can add significant value to almost any transaction. It's the sort of thing that separates the wheat from the chaff.

taxwonk 04-14-2005 11:33 AM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
No one likes to see a friend or relative die, however it can be a joy to receive an inheritance once they are gone. Make certain you understand the IRS regulations regarding inheritance so if you choose to sell off any numismatic holdings you acquire this way. You will want the liquidation of these holdings to also be a joy rather than a burden to you.

IRS Publication 551, Basis for Assets (revised in May 2002) addresses inherited property as well as that received as a gift. According to this publication, "Your basis in property you inherit from a decedent is generally one of the following: (1) The FMV [Full Market Value] of the property at the date of the individual's death. (2) The FMV on the alternative valuation date if the personal representative for the estate chooses to use alternative valuation. For information on the alternate valuation date see the instructions for Form 706."

In this area of the publication much more than numismatic inheritance is reviewed, but the two items presented here are the only comments having a direct impact on such numismatic items. The publication further states, "…If a federal estate tax return does not have to be filed, your basis in the inherited property is its appraised value at the date of death for state inheritance or transmission taxes."

There are situations under the current tax codes where due to the value of the estate no taxes were collected at the time of its disbursal. There may be taxes, however, if you choose to sell what you have inherited.

Numismatic Items or Bullion?
Another factor directly impacting taxes is if what you are about to sell is considered to be numismatic or bullion. 1984 Federal Register Vol. 49 No. 3 discusses this on page 645 through page 648.

According to this document, the regulation requires that coin dealers report all gold bullion liquidations on Form 1099. Coins with a premium above 15 percent do not have to be reported by dealers. (The important thing here is that the reference is to "dealers," not to "hobbyists." What the regulation is trying to do is to distinguish between what are bullion and what are collectible gold and silver coins.

On December 28, 1992 this law was amended to allow exceptions from Form 1099 reporting. According to this amendment, "A sale of a precious metal in a form that may be used to satisfy a CFTC-approved regulated futures contract, is an excepted sale, … provided the quantity … sold, is less than the minimum amount needed to satisfy a CFTC - approved contract, and in any form other than that which may be used to satisfy a CFTC - approved contract."

The "Reason to Believe" clause nullifies exceptions "if a broker has reason to know that a customer, either alone or together with a person related (related means more than just family) to the customer, is engaging in one or more sales with a principle purpose of avoiding information reporting" i.e. Form 1099s.

Conclusions
Although many numismatists, those receiving numismatic gifts, or those inheriting numismatic items may want to consult with their accountant or lawyer regarding tax implications and their legal options, this presentation should give an accurate portrayal of what may be necessary for your individual situation.

When selling your coins through Heritage you have options to consider. You may want payment checks to be endorsed to people to whom you wish to make a gift during your own lifetime, or to foundations or trust funds you have established for tax purposes, rather than directly to yourself. Discuss this with your Heritage account executive before you sign any agreements with us.

The sale of your numismatic possessions should be a time of satisfaction for you, regardless of if you assembled the collection yourself, were given them as a gift, or inherited them. Understanding the tax implications of your financial gains, and how to cope with these tax implications to your own best advantage, is important.
It sucks not being able to find anything billable to do all day long. But when that happens to me I don't take it out on the whole board.

Next time try posting on something relevant like the estate and gift tax implications of the gift of a house in Hilton Head, with a reserved life estate by the donor and spouse.

Hank Chinaski 04-14-2005 11:36 AM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
It sucks not being able to find anything billable to do all day long. But when that happens to me I don't take it out on the whole board.

Next time try posting on something relevant like the estate and gift tax implications of the gift of a house in Hilton Head, with a reserved life estate by the donor and spouse.
I really want my dad's coin collection. Fuck my sister.

And I don't have anything to do all day.:confused:

If only those snooty Corporate lawyers would realize bringing in an IP guy would really help them on their transactions!:(

taxwonk 04-14-2005 12:02 PM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I really want my dad's coin collection. Fuck my sister.

And I don't have anything to do all day.:confused:

If only those snooty Corporate lawyers would realize bringing in an IP guy would really help them on their transactions!:(
You obviously have far too much time on your hands if you're wasting huge amounts of time poring over IRS Publications for such little comedic payoff. I just assumed it was a slow day instead of guessing you'd been laid off and were just sittinga t home drinking and posting between Jerry Springer and Judge Judy.

Shape Shifter 04-14-2005 12:17 PM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Fuck that- I say make people say something amusing or they don't get a code to post. And No being grandfathered in SS, you'll have to go copy something you did pre-lobotomy.
7. Beauty and the Beasts
gs: Judith-Marie Bergan (Sally) Robin G. Eisenman (Ms. Graham) Christopher Goutman (Todd) John Sanderford (Eric) Barbara Worthington (Ms. Richmond) Douglas Bruce (Man at Bar) Clay Alexander (Bartender)

Buffy and Hildy are invited by Sonny and Isabelle to a singles bar. The pair are ignored by the men, causing Henry to question society's favoritism for attractive people. Feeling like a hypocrite for spurning Amy's advances, he asks her out on a date.


b: 15-Jan-1981 pc: 007 w: Ian Praiser & Howard Gewirtz d: Will Mackenzie

Spanky 04-14-2005 01:11 PM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
7. Beauty and the Beasts
gs: Judith-Marie Bergan (Sally) Robin G. Eisenman (Ms. Graham) Christopher Goutman (Todd) John Sanderford (Eric) Barbara Worthington (Ms. Richmond) Douglas Bruce (Man at Bar) Clay Alexander (Bartender)

Buffy and Hildy are invited by Sonny and Isabelle to a singles bar. The pair are ignored by the men, causing Henry to question society's favoritism for attractive people. Feeling like a hypocrite for spurning Amy's advances, he asks her out on a date.


b: 15-Jan-1981 pc: 007 w: Ian Praiser & Howard Gewirtz d: Will Mackenzie
What am I missing here? To me, this is a bunch of Gibberish.

Hank Chinaski 04-14-2005 01:13 PM

Death Tax Relief for America's Farmers. All 50 of them. The rest? Bonus!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
What am I missing here? To me, this is a bunch of Gibberish.
Is this the first of his posts you've read? i wish it were for me.

Tyrone Slothrop 04-14-2005 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Who is Orin Kerr?
He teaches law at GWU. Here is his profile. Former Kennedy clerk.

The Volokh Conspiracy is a right-leaning group blog, most of whose contributors are legal academics.


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